Mamie Brown Mason Interviewed on June 2, 1995

HUNTLEY: This is an interview with Mamie Brown Mason for the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute's Oral History Project. I am Dr. Horace Huntley. We are at 00:01:00Miles College. Today is June 2, 1995.

Thank you Ms. Mason for taking time out of your schedule to come and sit with us today.

MASON: It's my pleasure.

HUNTLEY: I just want to start by asking some general kinds of questions about your family. Tell me about your parents. Were your parents from Birmingham or where were they from?

MASON: No. They were born and raised in Dallas County, Selma, Alabama. Maybe some people know it by Pleasant Hill back in that area.

HUNTLEY: Pleasant Hill, Alabama?

MASON: Yes. On a farm.

HUNTLEY: Well, were you born in Birmingham?

MASON: No.

HUNTLEY: Where were you born?

MASON: I was also born there.

MASON: And we moved to Orrville when I was about nine years old. So basically I grew up in Orrville. It's still Dallas County, but in a different section.

HUNTLEY: Was Orrville a larger place?

MASON: It was larger, yes.

HUNTLEY: And so you were moving from the rural to the --

MASON: Another section of the rural.

HUNTLEY: Another section of the rural, not quite urban yet. How many brothers and sisters did you have and where did you fit in there?

MASON: Well, I am the seventh child. There were actually 12 born. One sister passed away at about six weeks old, but 11 of us lived to get grown. Six girls and five boys.

HUNTLEY: Tell me just a little about your parents. What about their education? Your mother and your father.

MASON: Well, my father got very little education. There was a large family of them. There were 14 in his family, so he didn't get a chance to go to school very much. My mother was very well educated. In fact, she helped to teach us all 00:03:00through high school. So, I don't know how far she went in school, but she was able to help us with our math and what not while we were going to high school.

HUNTLEY: That's remarkable because --

MASON: Yes, she was a smart lady.

HUNTLEY: Yes. After my kids got to high school I couldn't help them with math any more, so she must have been pretty smart.

MASON: Yes, she was.

HUNTLEY: What about her occupation? Did she work outside of the home?

MASON: Well, on the farm, sometimes.

HUNTLEY: But this was just in the family business?

MASON: Right.

HUNTLEY: And your father, what did he do?

MASON: A farmer, he was a farmer, yes.

HUNTLEY: Did the children work on the farm as well?

MASON: Oh, yes.

HUNTLEY: How would you describe the community that you grew up in?

MASON: In Orrville?

HUNTLEY: In Orrville.

MASON: Well, there was some people in that community that was pretty well educated. And we got a lot of help from most of the adults in the community, 00:04:00including the church and the school.

HUNTLEY: What kind of help?

MASON: Well, many of our teachers we would see at church. And even if we were just speaking to them they would correct us with our English and they were just very caring teachers, very caring.

HUNTLEY: So you were always learning when you were around those adults?

MASON: Yes. Always.

HUNTLEY: Were most of the people that lived in your area, were they farmers?

MASON: Oh, yes. Most of them were farmers. But most of them were sharecroppers. Now my father and his brother were buying their own home and my uncle, my father's brother had ten children and their were 11 of us and, you know, we did 00:05:00a lot of playing together.

HUNTLEY: So you had a community just with family?

MASON: Yes. It was enough to make a school.

HUNTLEY: Tell me a little then about the recreation that you all participated in. What kinds of things did you do to keep yourselves entertained?

MASON: Well, we created our own fun. We had enough to have a ball team or whatever we wanted to do. Pitch horseshoes or do things. Because we didn't have a TV and we didn't have a radio even, so my father, many times, organized the games that we were playing because he liked to play also. He was a strict father, but he still like to play with us. But we knew when it was time to play and when he really meant business.

HUNTLEY: What was the community's relationship to the law enforcement agencies in that area? Do you ever remember anything happening as far as --

MASON: Oh, I can recall one incident when I was very small. A young man who went to school with us who, I think he whistled at a White girl and he had to do time for that. Which we thought was kind of bad, but there was nothing we could do about it.

HUNTLEY: How much time did he do for that?

MASON: I think he did a year and a day.

HUNTLEY: Is that right?

MASON: For just whistling at a White girl.

HUNTLEY: You know Emmett Till was supposedly whistling at a White girl, also.

MASON: Oh, yes. That brought that back very vividly when that happened, yeah, what happened to him.

HUNTLEY: How would you describe your elementary school? What school did you attend?

MASON: I attended Providence school. We were members of Providence Baptist Church and there was this little hall on the ground. And at first there were the 00:07:00two rooms and then our parents got together. All the parents in the neighborhood got together and added another room because it was too small. So when I left there, there were three rooms with three teachers.

HUNTLEY: And then you went on to high school?

MASON: I went to Keith High School.

HUNTLEY: Keith High School? Is that in Orrville?

MASON: In Orrville, yes. Where I had to walk six miles to school and six miles back.

HUNTLEY: You mean you walked once a week and you stayed there?

MASON: No. Everyday I walked six miles to school. And when school was out I walked back home six miles. We had no school buses so that is how we had to go to school.

HUNTLEY: Well, were you walking alone or were there others?

MASON: A group of us were walking and the White children had school buses and they would pass by and throw out and hit us, you know, as we were walking. So, I 00:08:00remember an incident where we were ready for them with their plums and we threw back on the school bus. The next day the principal had us, Mr. Hatcher was the principal at that time, he had us in and told us that the bus driver told him that we were throwing on the bus and so we told him what happened. He said, "Well, you still cannot do that. Do not throw on the bus." We had a rough way to go. Really rough way to go, but we were determined to go to school anyway we did.

HUNTLEY: What do you remember about the time that you spent at Keith High School in terms of your teachers, the principal, the kinds of things that you and your friends would do? What stands out most in your mind about Keith?

MASON: You know we are getting ready to have our school reunion. On the 29th of June we will be going to New York to have a reunion of the entire school. But the thing that stands out mostly was the caring of the teachers. We had teachers that cared about all students, you know. And the thing that really stands out with me is the fact that I was a very sheltered person. My parents sheltered us, me anyway. And I was not going to be going to my prom and the principal's wife was also a teacher. Mrs. Hatcher found out that I was not going to go and she wrote my mother a letter and said, "Let her stay with me and attend the prom." And that's what I did. I spent the night with them, attended the prom and went back home with them.

HUNTLEY: I assume this was closer to where the prom was being held?

MASON: It was held at the school.

HUNTLEY: So you would have to get from your place?

MASON: Right. And I didn't have any way to get there and my mother was not going to let me go with my boyfriend, it was just that simple.

HUNTLEY: But you did get a chance to go to the prom?

MASON: I got a chance to go to the prom by spending the night with the principal and his wife and their children.

HUNTLEY: I see. So you are having a reunion of Keith High School in New York?

MASON: In New York.

HUNTLEY: Why New York?

MASON: Well, there are people in New York who attended that school and they asked to have it there. We have it every two years. I think the next year we are scheduled to have it in Selma.

HUNTLEY: Okay.

MASON: The next two years.

HUNTLEY: So everybody in Orrville will be going to New York City?

MASON: Maybe not everybody, but we have a chapter here in Birmingham and most of us are going to New York.

HUNTLEY: That should be big fun then. After you finished Keith High School, what did you do?

MASON: I came to Birmingham and attended Booker T. Washington Business College.

HUNTLEY: And you finished Booker T. Washington and then what?

MASON: Well, I got married in '51 and so I went to school. I then had to quit going to school during the day and when Mrs. Gaston heard that I was not able to go to school, she says, "Oh, no. You must go. You must continue." So I started going at night. I finished Keith High School in 1954. I mean, I'm sorry, I finished Booker T. Washington Business College in 1954.

HUNTLEY: So were you simply going to school. You were not working at that time?

MASON: She gave me work to do in the office.

HUNTLEY: I see.

MASON: Because I was not able to go money wise. And she gave me -- Mrs. Gaston is a great person. I just wish I could be able to tell her that.

HUNTLEY: Well, you can. She may even watch this.

MASON: I hope so. There were many people that she helped who was not able to go to school and she let them go anyway.

HUNTLEY: So in 1954 when you finished at Booker T. Washington, what was your next step?

MASON: Well, I was not able to get a job, you know, using the skills that I learned in school.

HUNTLEY: And what did you go to school for? What were you being trained for at Booker T. Washington?

MASON: Business Administration. I was not able to use it at all. Accounting and business administration. So I worked as a maid. I worked at a plant also. I 00:13:00worked at Simon & Mogilner. Yes, that was a place where I had a lot of problems.

HUNTLEY: What kind of problems did you have?

MASON: Oh, it was the most racially segregated place and I had a little problem with a White person there and I was fired, of course.

HUNTLEY: What was the problem?

MASON: Well, I was in line to clock in and this girl shoved me, you know, and of course, all I did was report it. I didn't even hit her which I thought about doing, but I didn't. I reported it and of course, I was fired for reporting it, I guess. But then I got a job writing insurance at Booker T. Washington Insurance Company. And that's what I was doing during most of the time of the 00:14:00Movement. I was writing insurance with Booker T. Washington.

HUNTLEY: I see. So you were rather independent as well?

MASON: Yes. Yes.

HUNTLEY: When did you get involved in the Movement?

MASON: From the beginning almost. In the early 50s. Probably about '57 or '58, something like that.

HUNTLEY: The NAACP was outlawed from operating in the state in 1956.

MASON: Right.

HUNTLEY: And then Shuttlesworth and a number of other ministers got together to establish the Alabama Christian Movement. Were you involved that early in those initial stages?

MASON: Not the very initial stages, but I started attending shortly after that.

HUNTLEY: Why did you get involved?

MASON: Well, I just saw the need to do something to help whatever I thought that I could do. I got involved in voter registration for one thing. We set up a 00:15:00voter registration school at our church, at the 46th Street Baptist Church. On a Wednesday night I was teaching people to fill out those applications they would need and other people, members of our church would teach them how to fill out those long drawn out applications for becoming registered voters and telling them how he had to pay the poll tax, you know, you had to pay a dollar and a half for poll tax in order to become qualified to vote.

HUNTLEY: When did you become a qualified voter, a registered voter?

MASON: Just before I started helping them. Probably '57 or '58, something like that.

HUNTLEY: Did you pass the first time that you went in?

MASON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: And had you prepared for the test?

MASON: I had prepared. I had been taught and so I was prepared for it.

HUNTLEY: So after you were taught then you decided to do the same with the other people?

MASON: Do the same and started helping other people.

HUNTLEY: And were you taught there at 46th Street Baptist?

MASON: I was taught by a person who was going to another church at that time. They were going to New Bethel Baptist Church, a Mr. George Johnson who encouraged me and who taught me and I think he was one of the first people who applied for a policeman here in this city. I think you may know something about him, I don't know.

HUNTLEY: Yes.

MASON: He's a minister now.

HUNTLEY: Right. I've interviewed him and he told me about that. Tell me, when you got involved in the Movement, what role did you play?

MASON: Well, at first I was just attending the mass meetings all the time. And our church choir and Rev. Shuttlesworth church choir decided to have fellowship and, we would sing at his church on one third Sunday and they would come to us the next third Sunday and Rev. Shuttlesworth asked me and Mr. Gay to organize a 00:17:00choir. We knew a lot of singers and we did a lot of singing over the city and we knew a lot of singers and we started getting people together to organize a choir for the Movement.

HUNTLEY: So you and Mr. Nims Gay?

MASON: Right.

HUNTLEY: Okay. So that was the initiation of the Freedom Choir?

MASON: Yes. Exactly.

HUNTLEY: Well, you wrote some of the songs, right?

MASON: Well, it was a workshop that they had in Tennessee. In Highlander Folk School that I attended where we were changing songs to freedom words. And this song that you may hear some time at the Civil Rights Institute, "I'm On My Way to Freedom Land," I wrote the words to that. The tune is from a gospel song that we were singing in our choir. I guess you would call it a spiritual, "I'm On my 00:18:00way to Canaan Land." So I changed those words from "Canaan Land" to "Freedom Land" and we sang that song at the mass meeting. And of course, Rev. Gardner liked that song and we had to sing it every night. Every time we had a mass meeting, we had to sing that song for Rev. Gardner.

HUNTLEY: I have heard a lot about the mass meetings and how they developed and all. Tell me, how would you describe the typical mass meeting?

MASON: Well, in one word I can say, "Awesome." It was really awesome. They had been filming those at that time, because I think it would be almost unbelievable to some of the young people now. We had a group of people who were devotion people who started the devotion and they had it so spiritual. It was so hot 00:19:00there. They could really moan those moans, sing those hymns and pray those prayers like you never heard before. It was very, very good.

HUNTLEY: It sounds like a revival.

MASON: That's right. Exactly. Like a revival. And that was anytime we had a meeting. We even, organized and had ushers.

HUNTLEY: Now, there were meetings held all over the city in various churches.

MASON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: And you all went from different churches every Monday night?

MASON: Right. To different communities. And the thing about it we didn't have automobiles.

But someone would call us. Sometimes more than one person would say, "Do you have a way to the meeting tonight?" And they would come and get us and take us. 00:20:00Wouldn't take a penny.

HUNTLEY: So you always had transportation?

MASON: We always had a way. We knew someone was going to take us.

HUNTLEY: Were you involved in any of the demonstrations?

MASON: Yes. The very first day of the demonstration I was involved. In April of 1963. The night before then, Dr. King had met with us and he prayed with us and talked to us about what to expect and then he ran his hand in his pocket and said, "I have so much money here. You are not going to be able to eat that food in the jail." And he said, "This is all I have, I'm going to give it to you." And he asked me if I had any money, I said, "Yeah, I have a little." And he said, "Well, put this with your money, so that the ladies, all of you --" And I went to some of the Miles College students at that time. And so we would get the 00:21:00man, the trustee to go to the store and get us milk and cheese and crackers and something that we could eat.

HUNTLEY: So you did not eat the food?

MASON: I couldn't eat it. I couldn't eat it. The only food that was good was the breakfast food. They had that strict lean white meat and biscuits and that was good. But they had breakfast so early. I ate that first breakfast because they didn't feed me the first day. They didn't even offer us any food. But I got up and went to have breakfast at 5:00 o'clock that morning. All those other mornings I said, "Don't wake me up. I'm tired. I want to get some rest." I was tired from writing insurance, I needed some rest.

HUNTLEY: You said Dr. King sort of instructed you all the night before you were arrested?

MASON: Yes, before we were arrested.

HUNTLEY: Was this at a mass meeting?

MASON: This was a special meeting of those of us that he was getting ready for the kick off.

HUNTLEY: And how many, approximately were there?

MASON: I think there were something like about 12 of us. No more than 15 that first day.

HUNTLEY: Was this at a church?

MASON: Yes. That first day.

HUNTLEY: Do you remember what church it was?

MASON: It was at 16th Street.

HUNTLEY: 16th Street?

MASON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: And what were the circumstances of your arrest?

MASON: There was a young man and I who was trying to eat at JJ Newberry's down in the basement where the White folks ate. We didn't want to sit up there on 00:23:00those stools where the Black people were and all they could get were hot dogs. We were going to go in to the cafeteria style and eat.

HUNTLEY: So the Blacks sat at the counter?

MASON: At the counter, but they only served like hot dogs or something like that.

HUNTLEY: And they only had a couple of stools?

MASON: Yes. Up on the first floor. But this was like down in the basement where 00:24:00they had the little tables, you know, and fixed it nice for the White folks. We were going to go there but they chained us out and wouldn't let us eat. They wouldn't let us get in. So, finally they called the police and they arrested us.

HUNTLEY: So, when they would not let you in, what did you do?

MASON: We just stood there. We waited for them to take the chain off. We knew some White people were going to come to eat. And as soon as they lifted those chains we were going to go in.

HUNTLEY: Did they ever lift the chains?

MASON: After we were arrested I am sure. But no, they didn't. They kept them up.

HUNTLEY: So you were never seated?

MASON: We were never seated. We were arrested because we were trying to be seated.

HUNTLEY: Was there a crowd around at the time?

MASON: Oh, yes. There were White people who were angry because we were not letting them eat. Because if they let the White folks in, they would have to let us in, too. And when they were arresting us, going up the stairs, there were White people on each side, they were looking at us so fiercely, so angry and I was glad to be arrested because I thought they were really going to attack me. And we were taught that we could not fight back. Under no circumstances could we fight back. Even if we were hit, we could not hit back.

HUNTLEY: How long did you remain in jail?

MASON: Five days.

HUNTLEY: Five days? Can you describe what it was like being in jail?

MASON: Well, we had prayer meeting in jail. The regular prisoners there and some of those ladies had life sentences.

HUNTLEY: Were you intermingled with the regular population?

MASON: Oh, we were in there with them. We were in there with them. They respected us to the highest. And every night they would ask us to sing and pray 00:25:00and every night this lady would stop us. She said, "They got to get up and go to work tomorrow." And they would tell this warden, "We asked them, we want to hear them." She still would not let us sing, so we were obedient.

HUNTLEY: So what did you do during the day for five days that you were there?

MASON: I worked in the laundry two days. They called our names alphabetically and my name was Brown at that time and Brown and Bell. There was a Bell there who was related to the Bell who was with Miles College. I believe she was a granddaughter of the president of Miles College at that time, but she was also there in jail. She and I worked in the laundry. And the first time we went out just before lunch, the lady that was over us, this was on that Friday, the lady 00:26:00that was over us, she said, "I'm not going to give you anything hard." The half of day we didn't even work. We didn't do anything. She told us, "Sit down." We sat and so when we were going back, she said a White man came to her and talked to her. She came to us, she called us aside, she said, "You see that White man talking to us?" I said, "Yes." She said, "He was asking questions. He wanted to know if you were obedient and I told him yes." And she said, "You were. You did exactly as I asked you to do. I told you to sit down." She said, "But, you know, you have snitches here in jail, so I am going to have to give you some work to do." I said, "That's no problem, I'm used to working."

HUNTLEY: Was this a White woman or Black woman?

MASON: No. This was a Black woman. The Black woman that was over the laundry.

HUNTLEY: Sort of a trustee like?

MASON: So, we were segregated in jail. We didn't have anything to do with the White women in jail. They were in their separate area. We were in our separate 00:27:00area. So, she said, "I'm going to have to give you something to do." So she had us to guide the sheets through the machine. I'm on one end and the other girl on the other. Very easy. Nothing. No problem.

HUNTLEY: Now, was this woman a trustee? Was she an inmate?

MASON: Yes. I think she's one of those, she said her time was going to be coming up soon for parole and she did not want to do anything to jeopardize that so she asked us to cooperate with her. And, of course, we were going to anyway.

HUNTLEY: Did others in your family participate in the demonstrations?

MASON: Yes. I had one sister who did. Hattie Felder.

HUNTLEY: Did she go to jail as well?

MASON: Yes, she did. And how long did she remain in jail?

MASON: I don't know. She was there longer than I was because she had to go back 00:28:00and when I went in -- and we had our case, Dr. King was there -- our hearing and he asked all of us who could to remain for five days and those who couldn't, he was getting them out the next day.

HUNTLEY: How did that impact upon your livelihood being in jail five days?

MASON: Oh, it didn't affect me at all. Not one way or the other. At that time my whole life was really the Movement. My church and the Movement that was about it. And my job, of course. And during the time I was in jail, there was a supervisor who was working on my job. He was working with me. So before I went to jail I wrote down all instructions to tell him what to do. The people to go to see and all of that so he could take care of business. And while I was in 00:29:00jail there was a contest going on on my job and when I got out of jail there were people calling me off the street to come and write some insurance because they saw me getting in the paddy wagon on TV and they were dropping insurance with the White people and they wanted me to be their agent. And I won a contest.

HUNTLEY: Is that right? As a result of going to jail?MASON: As a result of my going to jail. I went to Chicago to the insurance convention that year.

HUNTLEY: That's amazing.

MASON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: So you were actually enhanced by going?

MASON: Without even trying.

HUNTLEY: How did other members of your family react to your participation in the Movement?

MASON: Well, everyone in my family was in accord with what we were doing. Some of them could not take part because some of them had jobs that, you know, they 00:30:00probably would have lost their jobs. And, of course, my mother was ill at that time and she urged us on. She said, "If I wasn't sick, I'd be there with you." So they thought it was a great thing to do something to try to help the race.

HUNTLEY: So your family was very supportive?

MASON: Oh, yes.

HUNTLEY: You were writing insurance?

MASON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: What about your employer?

MASON: Well, I think he had no other choice but to accept what I was doing. And I am speaking of Dr. Gaston. Because Rev. Shuttlesworth and those that talked with him and I think he knew that he had to go along with it whether he did or not.

HUNTLEY: So you were in fact supported by the Movement and your employer, Dr. 00:31:00Gaston knew that you really didn't really receive any negatives from him?

MASON: No. Not from him.

HUNTLEY: Were your church and other members of your church involved? Your pastor involved in the Movement at that time?

MASON: That pastor, at that time I was a member of the 46th Street Baptist Church. That pastor did not become actively involved as far as the demonstrations and what not but he sanctioned everything that we did.

HUNTLEY: Oh, I see. And I am aware that that was a rather small church so it couldn't accommodate the meetings that they had?

MASON: Right. Right.

HUNTLEY: What benefits did you, your family and community realize as a result of the Movement?

MASON: Well, I think we benefitted by doors being opened up for jobs and educational benefits and what not. It's, to me a self-esteem thing also. To let 00:32:00you know that you are somebody no matter what people may think of you and the color of your skin has nothing to do with the content of your brain. That's one of the things.

HUNTLEY: Tell me just a little bit about how the choir would go from place to place. Did you ever go outside of Birmingham to give concerts?

MASON: Oh, yes. And we gave a lot of concerts in the city. Many Sunday nights we were doing concerts at different churches as a fund raiser for them and for the Movement. And the money that we received, sometimes the money may be, was split between the church and the choir. The choir would report that money to the Movement. We reported thousands of dollars to the Movement.

HUNTLEY: Why was the choir so important?

MASON: If you take a church now, I think the musical staff, the choir is an important function of the church. So it was the same way with the Movement. There were people who came to church to hear the choir, who came to the mass meeting, who followed the mass meetings around from church to church to hear the choir and to hear different people sing.

HUNTLEY: So, in effect, the Movement then was the church and the choir provided the music for that particular church?

MASON: Yes. Exactly. I have heard people say some Sundays they would miss going to their church but they would not miss going to the mass meeting on Monday nights.

HUNTLEY: The mass meeting was always packed?

MASON: Oh, yes. Always packed.

HUNTLEY: And you had people from all over the city?

MASON: All over the city. Different churches, different denominations, you know.

HUNTLEY: In just in closing, how would you assess the Movement, the Birmingham Movement? Was it a success?

MASON: Yes. I think it was successful. We had leaders then that we could look up to. We had leaders that we believed were trying to do something to help us. When I came back here from Los Angeles. I came back to Birmingham from Los Angeles in September of 1992 and I was a little shocked. Because to me, something was wrong. I do not see the togetherness that we had in the 60s and it's sad to me. 00:35:00Very sad. Because people were together regardless of whether they were low class, middle class, high class, everybody was together.

HUNTLEY: Why do you think there's a difference now than then?

MASON: I don't know. I think we need a leader. We need a leader that can get us all together. We had a particular leader hear in Birmingham in Rev. Shuttlesworth who got the Movement started and who kept it going and even when he went to Cincinnati, it still continued to go on. And, of course, Dr. King was one of those rare kind of people who was well educated but who knew how to not look down on the lowest of people. To him, he recognized people as people, no matter what their status was in life. This is what we need. Someone who can 00:36:00recognize people as people. I remember him going to the pool hall and shooting pool with these people, you know, and down on 4th Avenue with people there. And know he could go anyplace. Nowhere was too low for him to go. In fact, to me he lived the kind of life like Jesus did. You know, Jesus Christ was the kind of person who did not look down on people.

HUNTLEY: Do you think that these, that that togetherness could have been based upon the premise of everything being segregated so it put all of those different economic strata in the same pot? It did not matter how much money you had, all were the same?

MASON: Right. Dr. Gaston was a millionaire but he still could not go to these places, you know that were segregated. No matter how much money he had, he 00:37:00couldn't go. And there was nothing he could do about going to these places until we, "little people" got on the streets and broke it down. We, who had no money.

HUNTLEY: If I ask you to share with us your most vivid memory from the Movement during those Movement days, what would that be?

MASON: My mind goes to now a time when we were at New Pilgrim Baptist Church on 6th Avenue South and marching to the jail. The person who was heading that march was Rev. Charles Billups who is now deceased. And there was this tank that Bull 00:38:00Conner was in and he tried to get the firemen to turn the hose on us. This fireman refused to turn the hose on us and he told him, "You turn it on yourself. I am not going to do that." And he said, "All these good people wanted to do is to march and pray." He said, "Let the good Reverend pray." And we did. That was a time that we all rejoiced in seeing this fireman not do what Bull Conner was trying to demand him to do. He would not. I guess he said if I lose my job, that's fine. These people, all they want to do is march to the jail and kneel and pray. And he let us do that without turning the water on us.

HUNTLEY: That was obviously not the norm for the Birmingham Fire Department?

MASON: That's right. That was not. But Bull Conner had himself protected where 00:39:00nobody could get to him. He had the big tank all around him. You couldn't get to him at all.

HUNTLEY: Well, is there anything else you would like to add that we have not dealt with?

MASON: Yes, my main thing I would like to add is something about voter registration because that was something that was my pet peeve at that time. And now I think that people have gotten very slack about voting about even becoming qualified voters and you talk to young people when they are 18 and try to encourage them to become voters and they think that it is not going to do any good, but it will. Even though we have people who are qualified voters, who refuse to go to the polls and I think it's awful. Because we have people who lost their lives who were trying to become qualified voters. Not only Black 00:40:00people, white people also, who lost their lives. And I think it means more, should mean more to everyone to exercise the voting right. It is not being exercised and it really bothers me that that is not being exercised.

HUNTLEY: I certainly appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule to come down and sit with us today. And we are hopeful that we will get copies of this to you in the very near future.

MASON: Well, thank you so much for inviting me.

HUNTLEY: Thank you again.

MASON: All right.