Rev. Erskine Faush Interviewed on November 18, 1998

HUNTLEY: This is an interview with Rev. Erskine Faush for the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute's Oral History Project. I'm Dr. Horace Huntley. We're presently at the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute. Today is November 18, 1998. I want to thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to come and sit and talk with me today and welcome to the Institute.

FAUSH: Thank you, it's a pleasure.

HUNTLEY: I would like to start by just asking you some general questions about your background. Were you born in Birmingham?

FAUSH: Oh, yes, born in Birmingham.

HUNTLEY: Were your parents originally from Birmingham?

FAUSH: No, it's my understanding that my mother was born in Selma, Alabama and my father in Montgomery.

HUNTLEY: Ok, how many siblings?

FAUSH: Three.

HUNTLEY: Were you the oldest?

FAUSH: No, the youngest of three.

HUNTLEY: Oh, the baby.

FAUSH: Yes, one sister and one brother.

HUNTLEY: What part of town did you live in, did you grow up in?

FAUSH: Grew up primarily, my earliest recollection is Enon Ridge. However, I was told that I was born in a double tenant house that was on a place called Kirkland Avenue. I don't think it exists today. It's in that border area that was taken by the freeway that came through 11th Avenue that sort of bordered between Smithfield and Enon Ridge. The border of Fountain Heights because if you 00:02:00had gone two blocks further you would have gone into that section then occupied by Whites in Birmingham and then down into the area that Black occupied.

HUNTLEY: I had relatives that lived up in Enon Ridge up on 5th Place.

FAUSH: Yes, yes, right.

HUNTLEY: In fact, we can still see 5th Place from the freeway pass that's where it was cut off.

FAUSH: Right, those streets had names at the time. The one adjacent to the one that you mentioned was called as I remember Mortimer Street.

HUNTLEY: That takes you way back then.

FAUSH: And 11th Avenue and that was before the [inaudible] Presbyterian Church moved to its present location. All were displaced. I also remember there was a Mecca for business too. I remember it as a child, a candy kitchen, a Black owned candy factory that was on 11th Avenue North.

HUNTLEY: Is that right?

FAUSH: Yes.

HUNTLEY: That it was something that we lost.

FAUSH: Absolutely. You could smell it of course halfway through town.

HUNTLEY: It was a tracking point?

FAUSH: Yes.

HUNTLEY: In that area. . .oh, let me ask you this about your parents' education. How much education did they have?

FAUSH: As near as I can recall from conversation my mother went to Snowhill Institute. She referred to it often. Just how far she went I don't know. Her side of the family came out of the Selma area was very much a part of the history of that area. I remember my grandfather Peter, that's the Thomas family. Her maiden name was Alberta Thomas.

The Thomas family was quite well known in that area. In fact she was the only girl and three brothers. One was Willie Thomas, who owned at the time the only Black cleaners. That was on the main street. I think it was, I can't recall, it will come to me later. It's the main street when you come through Edmund Pettus Bridge downtown.

HUNTLEY: That would be Highway 80.

FAUSH: Yes, but there's another name for it. It escapes me for the moment. Then there was her brother George who owned a small grocery store and was also a preacher. The most prominent of the Thomas family at the time was Mark Thomas. He owned most of the land around Range Street and 1st Avenue. In fact, if you 00:05:00visit the area now the building still stands because his widow still lives. She's 106 or 107 years old or something like that.

HUNTLEY: Is that right?

FAUSH: Yes, she's still living. That is the name engraved in the stone at the top of that building now that says Thomas Grocery. They also leased a lot of land. He was a cattle trader and raised a lot of cattle out in a place outside of Selma called Beloit. The family, I've been there to the family cemetery and there are Thomas' that date back into the early 1800's. At the time of Mark's death, I think he would not let him tell and it was told at his funeral. I have the funeral program somewhere at home. Most of the civil rights leaders were there at his funeral because as you know during the height of the civil rights struggle in the area they tried to cut off the food supply. Mark had gone into 00:06:00retirement. He came out of retirement and started what is called the co-op grocery. They knew what they wanted to do but they didn't have the expertise, so they got Mark. Mark was a person also who paid the fines for a lot of the demonstrators that were in jail at the time. However, he would not let it be told. At the funeral all of this came out. It was quite a story. His son is still in the area now, a lot of Thomas'.

HUNTLEY: Are the businesses?

FAUSH: No, most of the things on 1st Avenue. They're still a part of their property but being leased. Service stations and other things are still leasing land off of the Thomas' even today. As I mentioned Aunt Laura still lives, until 00:07:00her demise the other generations there will come into play. However, the two well-known persons in the area that are still there, the Moss', one of the Thomas daughters married one of the Moss, [inaudible] Moss, was an outstanding educator in the area, she just demised this last year. She was the daughter of the ruler of the Elks in the state of Alabama in addition to her educational involvement. The other two are twins, Malcolm and Maniard Thomas, my first cousins. Malcolm owns a high-tech industry in Huntsville, Alabama at the moment. His wife is Dr. Maddie Thomas who's on the faculty at A & M. The other one 00:08:00Maniard who ran PX's and so forth and Maniard serviced at Maxwell Air force Base in Selma. All of them were involved in business enterprises and things of this kind on that side of the family.

HUNTLEY: So, you come from a long line of entrepreneurs?

FAUSH: Yes, yes, in fact there is a funeral home in Selma today connected also with a hotel that [inaudible] and her husband Moss, operate in the city of Selma today. So, it's been a long life.

HUNTLEY: Yes.

FAUSH: By contrast my father that side of the family was from Montgomery. My father would tell me the story of what he did, you know in work and so forth. I 00:09:00remember him telling me the story of the Drennen Motor Company, the Cadillac dealer and so forth for many years on the southside of Birmingham. They sold buggies, horses, and carriages before the oncoming of the automobile. He was a painter that did the special painting on carriages and things of that kind. I remember finding a case once as a child with all kind of small jars of speciality listing paints and things of this kind with a lot of thin brushes.

I asked him about it and he told me the story. A man would come in, of course, and order a new carriage and that sort of thing and he would design what he 00:10:00wanted on it. Whether it was a family crest or whatever and he was the first one to do that. In later years, he became, when he worked as a janitor at school, in fact when I was going through school, he worked as a janitor. He also worked as they refer to them, I don't know how they got the title calling them that because when you say porter you think of the railroad but they called them porters. They cleaned up the floors and he worked at Blanche Department Store.

HUNTLEY: Did your mother work outside of the home?

FAUSH: No, only when it became absolutely necessary. By being the youngest of the three children and so forth my father in my early years became ill. He was ill a long time before his death. So, that necessitated my mother doing whatever 00:11:00she could to supplement and keep the family going. I know she took in ironing. She ironed shirts and things of that kind. She worked, I heard her say once she worked at a laundry someplace.

It used to be over on the southside of Birmingham. No, she was more or less a housewife and did these jobs when necessitated or demanded that somebody do something. She became the major bread winner of the family. It was always amazing that my mother, that again with such limited resources seem to be able. . . As I look back now I see a lot of human involvement as well too. She was 00:12:00always frugle, to say the lest. Quite thrifty and instilled in the children. If mother only made a dime she saved a penny of it. She was never broke but never had much.

HUNTLEY: Right.

FAUSH: She was never broke. She knew where she could go to that jar inside the closet

somewhere and get a few nickels when necessary. She was an amazing cook, an outstanding cook. I told some people in recent times, humorously of course that my mother could make the best gravy in the world. I was twelve years old before I knew that a chicken had anything but feet. I thought that was all that was to it. She would bring in these big bags of chicken feet. She would make the best gravy for rice.

HUNTLEY: What do they do with chicken feet now? I haven't seen a chicken foot in I don't know when.

FAUSH: I think that today perhaps, the younger generation today perhaps, I don't think many of them today have even seen a live chicken.

HUNTLEY: Not many of them, your right.

FAUSH: Perhaps they have the same notion as I had about the feet that, that was all to them. That perhaps they come in the world that way. They're all in the cellophane packed in the butcher's case.

HUNTLEY: (laughing) That's right. Now, you grew up in that Enon Ridge, Smithfield area. What school did you start first grade?

FAUSH: First grade, Tuggle but I went to Beulah Moore Day Nursery. She was quite a figure.

Mrs. Beluh Moore. The building, I don't know if it's still there because it's been a long time since I was in the area. As you know, Tuggle school, Ms. Tuggle 00:14:00of course, her grave site is in the yard of the school and it remains that today. Sardis Baptist Church is on the corner. Well, there is a building, it finally moved from wherever it was prior. The Beulah Moore Day Nursery sat on that western most end of Tuggle School. Right across the street from old Sardis Baptist Church. There was a grocery store that was across the street also called Bell Grocery. That's where we used to go and by candy and stuff like that after school. I went to day nursery first.

HUNTLEY: Oh, ok.

FAUSH: Which propelled me to getting out of school more quickly then would be normal.

Because having not waiting to age six to get in I was not quite five. Having 00:15:00gone to Ms. Beulah Moore's Day Nursery there was almost a sort of automatic movement on into the first grade. So, I got in before being six years of age.

HUNTLEY: So, you were ahead of yourself?

FAUSH: Yes, I was ahead of the times more or less and so forth. We lived on a, I can remember after moving from, my earliest recollection of a house was, we lived next, at the end of the ball field at Tuggle School. Which was right down the. . .and so much is coming to my mind right now because across the fence was the family and relatives of Erskine Hawkins. The Hendersons, Sneads and those persons but they were sisters. I'm trying to remember the famous blues singer, 00:16:00Laura Washington?

HUNTLEY: Laura Washington, yes.

FAUSH: Laura's family was in that area as well. We lived at the end at the house next to the grocery store which was at the end of the playing field or ball field that was on the campus at Tuggle School. In fact, my father got his eye knocked out from a ball game. The two of us were walking and he was holding my hand as a child, walking past the ball field. The catcher missed the ball, my daddy wore glasses and it hit his glasses and he lost one of his eyes. He had a glass eye after that. From there I can remember living on 4th Street which was called College Street. There's a Jewish cemetery down near the bottom of the 00:17:00hill. Across the street lived Dr. E. W. Haggard. We were right up the hill in an old huge double tenant house. Sometimes we only occupied the lower floor and on the weekends a church would come in upstairs.

HUNTLEY: Is that right?

FAUSH: Yes. There are a lot of people, well known people of that time that lived in that area.

HUNTLEY: Who was the Dr?

FAUSH: Dr. E. W. Haggard was a well-known Black dentist. Up the hill across the street from us lived Dr. Hutchinson. In fact, he was a Black physician and his family lived one or two doors down from Sardis Baptist Church. In fact, his son, Edward Hutchinson was in my class in elementary school at Tuggle. Around from 00:18:00us, right around the corner, living on the next street was the early Harris family.

HUNTLEY: So, that community then was basically a middle-class community or was it mixed?

FAUSH: Some were mixed. You had have these one or two houses, like Dr. Haggard's was perhaps the most outstanding and the other one would have been Dr. Hutchinson's. Directly across the street I forgot I had a cousin who lived directly across the street, the Howards. They lived next to Bell Store. Between that you would have double tenant houses.

HUNTLEY: So, it was a mix?

FAUSH: Yes.

HUNTLEY: What did most people do? What kind of work did most people do that lived in that community? Do you remember?

FAUSH: Various odd jobs, whatever was available during the time.

HUNTLEY: Did you have any. . .

FAUSH: You've got to remember also that as you start up 3rd Street North and this was all in that some general geographic configuration. There was that Mecca of Black business enterprise that also bordered the Black community. Part, right down the street from what they refer to later as Sugar Hill. As you know, Center Street was a dividing line of demarcation if you please. It became Dynamite Hill and Center Street. Over on 3rd Street on the other side which has been the southern most side of the Jewish Cemetery where the railroad would come through right beside that was the icehouse and the coal yard owned by the Commons family.

HUNTLEY: Sounds as if the community basically is self-sufficient.

FAUSH: Almost self-contained, yes.

HUNTLEY: That's interesting because I guess at that particular time it was almost necessary.

FAUSH: Oh, absolutely necessary.

HUNTLEY: What do you remember about Tuggle School?

FAUSH: There are a lot of things of course that come to mind.

HUNTLEY: Is there anything that stands out?

FAUSH: Yeah, the again the community feeling. The extended family feeling and association.

That was perhaps for the word of a better term an emotional and psychological connection. Everybody knew everybody. There was a what I like to refer to again as to what community really means. You can transfer that to mean a caring, sharing responsibility. You knew your neighbor; your neighbor knew you. You knew all the children. Their history. There was a sharing of not only resource but information again of caring and concern to the extent in what has been described 00:22:00as a weeping with those who weep and of laughing with those who laugh and so forth. You shared each others' tragedies, each other's joys, the hopes and fulfillment. If there was somebody in the neighborhood who made good, there was some rejoicing. Not only when your kid walked across to get his diploma, but they all made it.

HUNTLEY: It was the epitome of the extended family.

FAUSH: Absolutely. I was, I mentioned about 11th Avenue and the Candy Kitchen. I remember on the next corner the principal of Tuggle lived there. His name was Burt Hudson. Mr. Hudson always taught his seniors. He had some of us, it was a great thrill if you were selected as one of the persons who worked in the 00:23:00office. He would select different students to work in the office. I was fortunate enough to be selected as one of those who worked in Mr. Hudson's office. We would have assignments, as carrying notes around the school and different things and so forth. But you had some exposure over and above the student-teacher relationship.

HUNTLEY: Right.

FAUSH: Mr. Hudson always taught his seniors. This stands out to me perhaps more than any single thing in my elementary school career. He was a lover of literature. He always taught his seniors one hour a day and it was all about literature.

HUNTLEY: So, not only did he select you to work in the office, he actually instructed you?

FAUSH: Yes.

HUNTLEY: He selected these individuals that he instructed?

FAUSH: What I'm saying, these are two things. The persons who worked in the office were people that he selected, of course, either you were good students, your attitude and what other criteria he put in his selection process. It also meant that you were missing some of your recreational time because you still had to do your classes. Nothing replaced your classes, you had to do your work. The one perk that you got was that whenever they had a movie, instead of an assembly person time there was a movie that they had in the auditorium. If so, you at 00:25:00least got a chance to go to the movie free, you didn't pay the nickel to go to the movie. That was really the only perk that you got for working. You got to remember though we didn't have intercom systems and all that communication. The campus, it's a hilly area up there and it was a long way when you had to go down to the shops area or the two-story building as we would call it or some other part of the campus.

HUNTLEY: Right.

FAUSH: If you needed to and if there was a meeting or faculty, or if he wanted to see somebody or needed them in the office or whatever. If there was an emergency at a home for instance, that a call had been made to the school. You had to find a student or whatever the case may be. Somebody had to do that running and go find those people and get them to the office or transmit that information. So, you were a courier as well as other things that you did around the office. On that period, instead of a study period, when you got to be a 00:26:00senior Mr. Hudson taught that class. You had to go to Mr. Hudson's class. He taught literature. I never shall forget that when I got to high school and started literature classes and so forth. Those of us who came out of Tuggle were so much further advanced because Mr. Hudson had already exposed us to American Literature and some English Literature.

HUNTLEY: Wow.

FAUSH: At the time we would watch other kids out playing ball, you know, we could see the ball field and we were sitting in there learning literature. I couldn't appreciate it at the time. And those long nights of trying to memorize [inaudible] and many other things that come to my mind. When we got to high school. . .

HUNTLEY: Then you understood?

FAUSH: I understood and appreciated the fact that hey we were so much further ahead that it was a breeze to get through that.

HUNTLEY: When you left Tuggle, where did you go?

FAUSH: Parker.

HUNTLEY: To Parker?

FAUSH: Yes. They had the annex then.

HUNTLEY: Ok, you went to Parker Annex first.

FAUSH: Parker Annex first.

HUNTLEY: Ninth grade?

FAUSH: Yes. I had, I started my musical experience and training very, very early as well too. My first band teacher at Tuggle was Amos Gordon.

HUNTLEY: Is that right?

FAUSH: Yes. Of course, he's made such a mark himself, a hall of famer and all of that. To be under his tutorage was a great advantage at that time. Of course, I didn't even appreciate that at the time but later on I appreciated it. He developed me and of course at the time I went to high school. Of course, you know Parker was the only high school, the largest high school in the world.

HUNTLEY: In the world.

FAUSH: You have the annex of course. Because of Mr. Gordon's influence, and I 00:28:00had private classes with him and so forth which put me ahead [inaudible] in the music.

HUNTLEY: What was your instrument?

FAUSH: I started with percussions and then moved on to the winds and had a brief time with the strings. Primarily I was a percussionist and the winds, reeds and brass were my specialties at the time. Later I got into keyboards, as I got into choral music and so forth. But his teaching opened the way for me because when I got to the annex the band was so large at Parker at the time that they had a junior band and a senior band. No ninth graders, it was just too full, you just didn't get in and so forth. But would you believe because that he had made contacts, Mr. Hudson, had went down and audition and I got in the Parker band as a ninth grader. So, I spent four years in the band. Along about the middle ways, again because of that foundational training that I had gotten earlier.

Mr. Hudson took private students on Tuesdays and Fridays. I was one of his teachers. I taught his private students along with him on Tuesdays and Fridays. Which was very helpful because we had no money and I got 50 cents for staying after school to help teach the private students in band. That exposed me to a world of things because then I got to play with a jazz band and Fess Whatley was there at the time and so forth. Mr. Hudson would select about ten students that he would call the auditorium band. The school was so large that you would have to have alternate days for auditorium or assembly period. You had a junior and senior. You were either in ninth junior or ninth senior. You just weren't in the 00:30:00ninth grade.

HUNTLEY: Right.

FAUSH: So, all the junior classes would come on Monday and Tuesday it would be the senior section of those classes and it would alternate that way. I got a chance to play in the auditorium band. Also, they had the outstanding variety shows and I got a chance to play in the orchestra. In later years this was the only thing to help me to make money and to keep going. I played in jazz bands and other things and so forth.

HUNTLEY: So, that was an intricate part of your development.

FAUSH: Oh, no question about it, yes. I became, Mr. Henry, I was in the choir. I became the student director of the choir. I was one of the few students ever in high school that would travel each year with the Elks Band. The Elks were the 00:31:00organization, the fraternal organization for Blacks. They had the big conventions and parades. The trains would come through the whole state of Alabama and the bands would go and compete in Chicago, Cincinnati, and other places. I had a chance to be exposed to all that and play in those bands. I got to play with such people as Fess Whatley, the Clarks. I got a chance, I remember once, Lyle Hampton came to town and of course the only way you could, or the best mechanism to get information about. You know, where could you get a captive audience of thousands of students except at Parker High School. So, when a celebrity would come to town at your senior period they would bring them to Parker High School. I saw many play. Just all kinds of names come to mind that I 00:32:00was able to see.

HUNTLEY: Right there at Parker High School?

FAUSH: Right there at Parker High School, you see. Of course, the choir was just famous all over the world. I got a chance to meet [inaudible]. We went all kinds of places. They just had to hear that choir. As a senior each year that would have something known as the academic meet. You would meet and have this academic contest and of course you would win scholarships to various schools and so forth. Well, I took the academic meet, also one of my very strong subjects was chemistry. My chemistry teacher was Carlton Wells. He was also in addition to teaching chemistry he was one of the coaches in athletics.

HUNTLEY: That's right.

FAUSH: It got to the point that we had [inaudible]. So, he was pushing me and I 00:33:00appreciate so much those teachers who took an interest in me. When the academic week came Mr. Hudson and Mr. Henry wanted me to take it in music and Mr. Wells wanted me to take it in chemistry. So, I took both. While I did not win the top prize. And here forty years later I can remember the girl's name that beat me. It was a girl named Mary Elizabeth Weaver from Asheville, North Carolina. She had a score of 99.8 and I had a score of

99.5. She beat me by three tenths.

HUNTLEY: Where was this held?

FAUSH: We were at, now that you asked me that, I think that we did it at the school, at Parker, I believe. Or did we go somewhere else? That escapes me. I can almost visualize being in the room with the test sheets.

HUNTLEY: So, this was a national test?

FAUSH: I don't really know how far it extended beyond the boundaries of Alabama. That part eludes me at the moment.

HUNTLEY: You said that she was from Asheville, North Carolina.

FAUSH: This girl was from Asheville, North Carolina and I don't know if it was administered. . . What I think happened is that they administered the academic meet in various sections of the country but not all come together. They probably held it in the state of Alabama and this is what I'm surmising because this girl was from Asheville, North Carolina. I remember getting a letter from then Dean Cater from Talladega College. Mr. R. C. Johnson was Principal of Parker High School at the time. Dean Cater's letter came to me and said, we know that you're 00:35:00disappointed in not being the winner. You're score was so high so we want to offer you a 250-300 dollar scholarship to attend Talladega College next year. They sent a copy to Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson's alma mater was Talladega. He came from--he came in the class. I never said anything to him about it. He came into the class and called me out.

HUNTLEY: This was the principal?

FAUSH: Yes, and he said that he had gotten this letter from Dean Cater and so forth and he was excited because it was the first time a Parker student had won something from his school, Talladega.

HUNTLEY: Is that right?

FAUSH: He was excited. He went to marching me around the school, you know and all this kind of stuff. But a strange thing happened. They said to me. I was excited too. I was excited because he thought it was such a big deal, you know. 00:36:00So, I attentively said that I was going to go to Talladega in the fall. I sent off the application and all this sort of stuff. That was the year that I had gone off also that summer to another Elks Convention to play in the marching band which won first place. I know we got off the train in Tuxedo Junction. Anyway, it won first place in the national parade. When I got back home and incidentally I have to add because it's connected to some other things. They would pay us like five dollars a day or something like that. It wasn't much but it was something. It was important to me because I didn't have anything. The guys being out of town would have fun and all this kind of stuff. I passed a 00:37:00shop on a corner and that was the first time the lapel-less jackets came out.

It was a brown corduroy lapel-less jacket. I took my money except four dollars and bought this jacket. It was the only new jacket. I knew I was going off in the fall and my only chance to get a jacket was to get this one. I took it as a prize possession. Anyway, when I got back off the trip and so forth the letter was there approving my application for attendance at Talladega College. But, and I don't remember the figure, but I needed to send $40.00 or $25.00 whatever the amount was for lab fees or something that it stated. That was it man, I didn't 00:38:00have it, alright. But I was too proud to tell anybody. My daddy was sick. There wasn't any way to get any money from him. So, time is getting close to school and so forth. I went back down to Parker by the school and so forth. I finally told Mr. Hudson. He asked where I was going and so forth. I just kind of [inaudible]. He kept pushing me and so I finally told him that I was going to go to Talladega, but I got this letter when I got back and I don't have the money it takes so I'm going to have to sit out.

He said, what? You can't do that. He said, wait a minute. So, he called his friend, Jonathon Ford, who was the newly appointed band master there at A & M. 00:39:00He talked to Ford. He was in town. So, he said that this is one of my best students. Do something. They were looking for musicians and I was one of the best that he had ever produced. Do something. So, he said, you get your stuff together and he said, I'm going on back. You just get your stuff together and come on up. I said, look I can't buy nothing. I don't have nothing. He said, I'll take care of it, you just show up. You get there. So, in the meantime I said ok.

Everything I had in the world was in a footlocker. An old one that my daddy had. 00:40:00I got my stuff together and got on a Trail ways bus. Got off in Huntsville, Alabama. The school is four miles outside of Huntsville in Normal, Alabama. It wasn't developed like it is today, brother.

HUNTLEY: Yes.

FAUSH: That four miles was woods. It was a country, ok. There were four guys on the bus with me. When I got off with my footlocker and so forth and got down there. They saw me coming. They asked me about if I was going to school and so forth. I said, yeah. Later I found out that they were upper class men. One guy a tall guy, I remember because I saw him months later there on the campus. He was 00:41:00a senior. Anyway, they said that they were supposed to meet a guy with a car and so forth and all that and I could go with them, but I would have to help to buy gas. Anyway, to make a long story short they swindled me out of my four dollars. I'm just 16, 17 years old.

HUNTLEY: Four dollars would have bought a whole lot of gas at that time.

FAUSH: It was the first time being away from home and so forth. They could tell I was young. Had the powder still on my cheek. (Laughing) Anyway, I stood around that bus station looking for them and I was left there.

HUNTLEY: Is that right?

FAUSH: I had to get out on the road and do one of these numbers. After I had almost walked to the school with that footlocker someone had pity and picked me up and took me on up to the school. Ok, but when I got there I couldn't find Mr. 00:42:00Ford. The folks down in the registrar's office didn't know nothing about me.

HUNTLEY: They never heard of you?

FAUSH: Never heard my name. So, here I was with that footlocker and didn't even have my four dollars.

HUNTLEY: All you had was a footlocker and some clothes and no money.

FAUSH: Nothing and up there. Fortunately, at that time probably 60% or maybe even more of the students at A & M's campus came out of Birmingham. All of them I played in the band with. Thomas Rossi was up there. It was just a bunch of folk. I mentioned him because he was a well-known musician. People that I had known, you know. Somebody, I don't know if it was Tom but they let me stay in 00:43:00their room that night. The next day I did find Mr. Ford. You talking about hungry. Let me tell you this before I leave this. A few years ago there's a big plaque sitting in the middle of my office wall down there and it says: The Mayor, City Council all signed by these people and so forth were making me an honorary citizen of Huntsville, Alabama.

HUNTLEY: Is that right?

FAUSH: This was presented just a few years back at the Von Braun's Center in Huntsville where I spoke to physicists and engineers and so forth that were there and brought the faculty from A & M. It was a special occasion there at the city of Huntsville. That night I said, if there was ever any doubt in anybody's mind that there is an eternal force that has control of our destiny. I want to 00:44:00remove that speculation from your mind now. I told them this story that the first time I saw Huntsville, Alabama with that footlocker with everything I had in it. And to have you invite me here to this Von Braun Center and to speak to you on such an occasion as this. You could never understand the significance. So, anyway I wanted to share that with you because to me that was quite an impact on my life.

HUNTLEY: How long were you at A & M?

FAUSH: Stayed at A & M most of that first year. During that year what was happening is that I was coming home on weekends. I was singing. They payed $15.00 dollars to sing on the early Bradford program. It used to come from Bradford Funeral Home on Sunday morning. I came back when I got a spot with them. I was singing with a group called [inaudible] Mr. John Banks who was the director of music at Lawson State and in the group with them. It became an alternate thing on Sunday mornings on the Bradford Program. We were known as the 00:45:00Bradford Singers and so forth. John gave me $15.00 so I would come home on the weekends to get those $15.00.

HUNTLEY: You said Lawson State.

FAUSH: Well, it wasn't Lawson State.

HUNTLEY: Wenonah Trade School.

FAUSH: That's right, that is right.

HUNTLEY: That was part of, I know in Birmingham the tradition of quartets.

FAUSH: Yes, but this was hymns of the church as opposed to gospel music as such.

HUNTLEY: I see.

FAUSH: I was in everything but gospel as such. I became the pastor of the church that I was born in for 20 and a half years. I was the first person to [inaudible] to ever pastor that one little church.

HUNTLEY: What church?

FAUSH: Metropolitan. But I was a child at the church.

HUNTLEY: Is that right?

FAUSH: I stayed there and pastored longer then anybody else. Anyway, I said that information because when I talk about music now because I came out of the early Methodist tradition. Most of the things we did in church were musical.

HUNTLEY: At A & M, you came here then you started to make the $15.00. That was big money.

FAUSH: Oh, yes sir.

HUNTLEY: That was big money. So, did that then change the direction you were going?

FAUSH: Yes.

HUNTLEY: What happened after that?

FAUSH: Alright, one of the things that happened. My brother, William, had opened his radio station in Bessemer called WBCO. WBCO was owned and I mention some of this along the way because he has connection with the continuing story. William 00:48:00was there for about a year at the station. The three people that owned the radio station at the time was, one later became the mayor of the city of Bessemer, which was Jess Lanier. He served many years until his death. The second person was Elton B. Stevens, the Elton B. Stevens, [inaudible].

The third person was the late, fellow Judge Ewing. The three of them. My brother, who was different from what was common for Black broadcasters at the 00:49:00time to take an assumed name and a name that may be applied to him by somebody else. Like, Jeffery Jazz or Daddy O or Sugar Poppa or some other name. My brother used his own name, Faush. In the short period over time and being in early broadcasting and exposure for, it was something new for Blacks at the time. He became known by his name. So, with the promotional pieces, it [inaudible]. Well, my brother left, decided to leave Birmingham and go to 00:50:00greener pastures.

HUNTLEY: Where did he go?

FAUSH: He went to Louisville at the time, I think.

HUNTLEY: In radio?

FAUSH: Yes. He was at LOK, I think it was or LOU. In the meantime, they invested in promotional pieces and so on with the name Faush. Well, Faush was our name. It wasn't something they dreamed up, you know as a handle or [inaudible] for entertainment purposes. So, somebody said, well, he's got a brother. A guy by the name of Hal Faulkner was then the assistant manager, they sent him to ask me if I would come out and do it.

HUNTLEY: And that's the way you got in it. . .

FAUSH: So, I very reluctantly agreed to go because I wanted to do something else. Any way I made a deal with them that I would try if they would permit me to continue to go to school or whatever it is that I wanted to do. Well, I early perceived that the advantage was with me at the moment, you know. Even though they were White I started bargaining early. To say that, hey, you're asking me now.

HUNTLEY: I'm in the driver's seat, you need me.

FAUSH: It didn't take a Rhodes Scholar to figure out that they were seeking me at the moment and that I better seize this moment. While, salary wise, it was a big deal to make $25. I think I started with $25.00 a week, whatever the case 00:52:00may be. I also played at night with orchestras and things like that and so on. I had a little band and so forth and we played little gigs. Also, then I got involved in this gospel music and stuff and so forth. I got into the music and the music started getting into me. Also, I started looking at this thing and saying that I saw some potential even though it was nothing at the moment. It was in its embryonic stage at the moment. I also thought, I've got to learn something about this, you know. So, this summer I stopped in because they were having this first big seminar that was going on at the University of Denver.

I made a deal with them to go. The thing was at the time because I couldn't go 00:53:00in Birmingham, Alabama. They didn't have a broadcasting/journalism school at the University of Alabama and other places and so forth. We couldn't go. They do have these things that I need and if I'm going to be good for you and help you make money. You've got to fix me where I know what I'm doing. So, it became a good argument, you know. I never let it be perceived by them that it's going to enrich me but it's going to enrich them and they better make the investment and so forth. So, this is how I got off and got some broadcast training and so forth. So, I had to put my general studies on hold for a moment to do this because it meant work. So, then they got this investment and all this kind of 00:54:00thing. Then I also started then, with the music to promote it and that sort of thing. I also saw the fact that if it's going to be a commodity that you've got to, it's got to be a vehicle rather it's sold as entertainment on a radio station, for whatever purposes this is the commodity.

HUNTLEY: Right.

FAUSH: That you've got to be involved in and so forth. So, it's in the interest that also you've got to promote it and stimulate it and otherwise. So, I started bringing the artist in and that sort of thing. So, for more than 18-20 years it became exploded and so forth. I did all the promotions here in Birmingham as well as the entire southeast, musically for about 18-20 years. Nothing moved without having some connection with it. Plus, I became A & R [inaudible] 00:55:00director for several record companies and so forth. I even got into recording myself and made about four or five. I'll show you some of the books and things and so forth that reached the top ten in the country back then during that time.

HUNTLEY: At what point did you get into the ministry?

FAUSH: This was in the, the ministry came. I'm sure you've heard reference to the ordained ministry.

HUNTLEY: Yes, yes.

FAUSH: I had perceived ministry in an overall sense in all the things that I've done. Even prior to that I started to get into the promotions and so forth. I also felt the need to be able to somewhat have control of your own destiny to the extent that whether or not it made money there had to be some kind of self-gratification and to be able to step outside of someone else always 00:56:00determining the direction of your career or anything else. I wanted to be in charge. I guess that's from, if I was in the percussion section I wanted to be first drummer. If I'm in the brass section I wanted to be first trumpet. At least make the attempt and make the effort to do it. So, and several things developed from a social standpoint and I guess I've always been a rebel riser to a certain extent. Perhaps not as vocal as some others but in my own way moving hopefully as growth does. It's very silent, you don't hear much from it.

HUNTLEY: Sure.

FAUSH: But that very force will crack concrete and a plant will come up through its roots if it gets the right nurturing and so forth. That force can come up even sometimes with more impact than it can if they void the significant or advanced notice that's coming. I thought that the preparation and other things. My own corn field definition of luck is when preparation and opportunity meet each other. You can be prepared and never get the opportunity and it won't work or you can have the opportunity and you're not prepared and it's going down the drain and so forth. So, trying to hopefully that one day one of these things is going to happen. So, I started off at a grocery business. I saw the need. I opened the first Black amusement park. I went through all kinds of trauma with 00:58:00these things.

Each was an outgrowth of the other. It was almost like steps coming on top of each other. You mentioned the ministry. In promotion of the music and other things and so forth. There came times of public presentation and so forth. I think perhaps always that's been that innate desire and awe. Sometimes preparing for a meeting and you know not what. I think perhaps that became the highest expression. To perhaps to put all of these formulating entities that come together and sort of jail to say in this. The impact of the music, the business, 00:59:00entertainment, all of this can come together and perhaps have its highest form of expression in this setting. I felt the energy in the movement. Then of course when I got into what is called the ministry and so forth. Then again like the broadcast and so forth I recognized that one has to also prepare himself. If you're going to do something you owe it to that discipline.

To at least make the preparation or it will never achieve its finest potential. I heard somewhere, sometime [inaudible] it's not the people that know how to get the job but the people who know why become their boss. So, I wanted to know some 01:00:00of the whys of things. So, again I find myself back in school. Of course, when Faith opened up I went back to get my undergraduate courses and so forth.

HUNTLEY: Where was that?

FAUSH: Faith, Faith College. I finished up the undergraduate courses but at the same time I was at theological training with ITC [inaudible] who then had their extension at Miles and so forth. I was in all of this all at the same time. Aside from that I was involved in all kinds of community things because I always felt that you owed something to the community. If something is going to nurture you, you owe something in whatever it is you're involved in, you know to move it 01:01:00along. Of course, we were then in the early stages of the thrust for human rights and all of this stuff was burning in all of us. I suppose all were waiting for some kind of direction or some kind of glue as such. A cohesive force to come together, you know. Like a magnet to pull it together to give it direction. We were always fighting our own wars and so forth. Even in broadcasting, that's a whole story in itself and other things being White only. And the many fights and battles we fought with advertisers. Many incidences you feel they were taking advantage of the Black community. They were just taking 01:02:00from it and not giving anything back to it. As I said, that is a whole. . . we could write a whole other book about all that.

HUNTLEY: Right, it needs to be written.

FAUSH: So, here I've got all these hats going.

HUNTLEY: So, how do you fit all of this together in the particularly how you eventually relate to your activities during the early and mid-60's?

FAUSH: In the thrust of human rights and all that?

HUNTLEY: Yes.

FAUSH: As I said, I think all of us. It was like a sleeping giant, or an animal if you please.

Whose laying there and just waiting. It's almost and you didn't have to hear thunder. If you can imagine a sleeping bear laying in the woods and a hunter 01:03:00steps on a dry twig.

That's really all it took, you know. Or you got escaping gas and all it needs is the pilot light and such, you know. Once you light that pilot you can light the whole oven, or the whole stove, they say. All of these things, the pressures had been there. The restlessness, all of it, just waiting for direction.

HUNTLEY: What gave it this direction?

FAUSH: I think a lot of things. I don't know if I could identify any single 01:04:00situation. It sort of like, if one is to identify your personality. To know me now or to know you or any individual at this point in life and development. There's no way you can understand them because at any given point in time all of us become the cumulative total of life's experiences that brings us to where we are. To understand the way, I think without knowing something of my cultural background and heritage and those things that had an impact to make me think the way I think today, you cannot really understand that thought process. Which is why history is so vital and so important. Those things that bring us to that point and time. One would have to had experienced some of the indignities.

HUNTLEY: I assume that I understand some of those indignities.

FAUSH: Alright.

HUNTLEY: And try to explain to me why at this particular time is Birmingham ready for what would take place in the 60's?

FAUSH: Alright. One must understand though, like I said, you know, sometimes we focus in on a certain given point in time.

HUNTLEY: Right.

FAUSH: To say, boom, it started, ok. That would not be correct in my way of thinking.

HUNTLEY: Absolutely.

FAUSH: Again, there were many things. It was like the leaven in bread. When we see the demonstrations with outward expressions. This is only that point perhaps where it all came together but the leaven had been working, you know. For 01:06:00instance, when the demonstrations started. We often forget about the Alabama Christian Movement and the other organizations and the meetings. When one says, if one would take the point to the Emancipation Proclamation for instance and decide hey, this is the time, boom, they're free. One would have to go down long before that. You've got to go back to the ships. You've got to go back to those that slaved down there and those who had hopes in their heart and those that nurtured and carried that desire for freedom and so forth. When all of the environmental things got to the point where, it's like a boil. If that boil gets to the point where that bacterial information comes and collects all in one place something has to give at that moment, you see.

HUNTLEY: Right.

FAUSH: It just so happened and I think that there is divine handling and you can call it what you want to but I think that and many have postulated why do you 01:07:00think by the divine hand or whatever name you what to refer to the deity and the one that's the creative force behind this universe. To say why is it always or why is that force seem to be identified on the side of the oppressed. I don't give an answer to that. This is one of those things conceptually, like love. Love is not defined it's evident. Whether we trace the course of history as far back as we are able to do so there have been times when one would have to contribute to a divine force if no more for the reason or the lack of being able to explain it otherwise. It all comes together and there is a point in time and 01:08:00if the universe operates by order and certainly it does.

Whether you want to give a name to that force that created the order. The order is there the intelligence is there. Nothing just happens. Something or somebody makes it happen. That force by whatever name you want to give it. I call it God but if you want to call it something else and so forth by any other name still that creative force I think brings in the season just as the bud becomes a rose. I think all the other things that make up the universe and society come to a [inaudible] when something takes place. That creative energy has to have expression. I think all the things in our history that was coming together all 01:09:00of these times. I have no explanation why you take a Texas born Senator and a vowed segregationist and all the things that would constitute even the side issues that one of that discipline would think.

His geographical background, his political background, and nurturing everything else coming up under [inaudible] and would also that at a certain given point in time that even, you know never would have been elected to the high office of President of the United States except for the quirk of history that removed a liberal person. Who would have ever thought that a Kennedy and a Johnson from these two opposite political polls would ever come together to form the 01:10:00leadership of this nation at that given point in time? Why would all that happen and then his subsequent assassination and then this Texas born person with all of this background would be the very person to be in the seat to push [inaudible]. Who can explain that?

HUNTLEY: Right.

FAUSH: Anybody who is a serious student I think would conclude that if Kennedy would have stayed there, that is a serious question as to whether or not he would have had the power and would it would take to get it through the legislature no matter what he thought. Who could explain a Hugo Black? A Ku Klux Klan was sitting on the Supreme Court and that would be the person, the instrument by which some things are done. Who can explain things like this? It defies logic. So, I'm saying this creative force brought all of these things to 01:11:00a point. It's never been without suffering. I don't understand why there's no redemption without the shedding of the blood. I only know it's a fact.

HUNTLEY: Some place [inaudible] as we have said, God helps those who helps themselves.

FAUSH: Of course.

HUNTLEY: He's always prepared to do whatever is necessary.

FAUSH: Absolutely.

HUNTLEY: As long as we are doing what is necessary.

FAUSH: Absolutely.

HUNTLEY: It appears that if you look at that period from, well many times we talk about the civil rights movement. We normally start at 1954. Of course, you've got to go further than that.

FAUSH: Absolutely, right.

HUNTLEY: If we talk about the marches in the civil rights movement. The 1954 Brown vs Board and the Montgomery Bus Boycott. Then we start to see activities 01:12:00starting to take place although much has taken place prior to that.

FAUSH: Absolutely.

HUNTLEY: It's just not publicized.

FAUSH: It's like a farmer preparing the soil.

HUNTLEY: Right. It all then comes into play. And we're not through yet.

FAUSH: Oh, no, no sir, by no means. We've only seen a little crack. We have yet to push it fully open and to walk through it.

HUNTLEY: Tell me how did you and Shelley come together eventually as partners? I know you were together at WENN. Is that right?

FAUSH: Yes. Well, there was a time that we were on other stations. We go back to those early years and from each vantage point. Each head was engaged in various 01:13:00actions and involvements from different points. It's like the guy I suppose who builds a fire over there and he doesn't have a stove but owns some wood in the backyard. This other man may have a match and the other a lighter. In some way you know that a fire needs to be started. So, in the meantime, there have been few. This is the casualties in the broadcast industry. The causality rate is high. There are very few that last a long period of time.

That in itself is somewhat an accomplishment, to simply last.

That's also even by design because it like gaining a foot hold and those who have the control of the strings in the first place don't want anybody to get enough clout of any kind that they may even have notions of self-reliance. Forget about the resource but even the notion. So, all of these things. The same things you would find in any other discipline were certainly prominent. It was as simple as someone coming in and you're gone and someone is in your seat tomorrow morning. It's just that fast, you see. (snapping fingers) There's a lot of movement even today, if you noticed. You might see a face on television 01:15:00tonight and so forth but there's no explanation to what happened to them. They're just gone. You see a new crew in there the next week and how do you want the ratings and what someone else says is popular. We just saw a thing in the newspaper the other day as being the impact that Oprah has today. The local outlets talking about it.

HUNTLEY: Tell us, say something about that so that people will know what you are referring to.

FAUSH: Well, the local outlet that airs the Oprah Winfrey show has reported that they have decided not to renew carrying that show, to pass the term to expire the present contract. I think it ends in '99. It has been supposedly picked up 01:16:00by someone else, but that's almost unthinkable at this point and time. If that can happen to a top-rated show.

HUNTLEY: The top-rated show.

FAUSH:I don't mean to elaborate just saying Oprah is enough. To elaborate on her status as an entertainer, entrepreneur and everything else that you could possibly name. The number one female performer in the history of television. If they could do that to Oprah what do you think they could do to the kid that's fresh out of journalism school, you know, waving the diploma waiting to be an anchor.

HUNTLEY: That's right.

FAUSH: Anyway but getting to the matter of Shelley and myself. It did not come 01:17:00together in terms of partnership and ownership only that the both of us had the same notion and how to best get into ownership. You see it's different with the broadcast industry perhaps. I think it's probably the most regulated industry in the world. You can't just decide that you're going to open another grocery store or department store or mechanic shop or automobile dealership or anything else. It's a long hard process. First of all, you've got to find an existing frequency or the possibility that once the ban is full no more frequencies are available. You've got to either buy an existing one or you know, you can't just decide to open one.

There are all the technical things involved. That's much too broad a subject to even to explore in these brief moments. Aside from all the regular things that 01:18:00any other business enterprise must meet in terms of taxes and regulations. In terms of local, state, government taxes and all the usual things. An investment, you know. There's also the FCC to deal with as well, along with the other agencies that get into the picture. Like the EEOC, the labor department, and the list goes on and on. The technical things. Once you got past all of that then of course there is the money. It has to be a viable and practical situation. It so happened that some years back that we wound up on the same station. I was on WENN, you know the story of that and that's a whole other discussion too.

HUNTLEY: It is.

FAUSH: But just for the sake of subsequential explanation, I guess. The WBCO, I 01:19:00mentioned earlier after it was sold to the McLendon group which came out of Mississippi. One of the first group operators or attempted group operators. They wanted to increase the power and move to Birmingham into the larger market arena. In being restricted on 1450, which was the frequency it was on at the time. It also had a CP from the federal [inaudible]. It expanded in power. It could not be done on that particular frequency. There were limitations whether your pattern initial broadcast coverage area is know as directional or 01:20:00non-directional. If it's directional it goes in not in a completely circular configuration of emissions from the tower but what it does it has sort of a shaped type.

Which means it may go fifty miles this way or hundred or so forth. And that is done and regulated by the FCC so we would not have overlapping signals. In some instances, like for instance know as an example we're broadcasting on what is known as the Mexican Clear which is 900 in the center of the dial. There is a treaty between the United States and Mexico that exists that keeps one from overlapping the other and so forth. So, that power of stations located on that frequency in Mexico has the control by the Mexican government and the United 01:21:00States government by treaty controls from that frequency on this way so that you would not have them collided or a jumble mess of emissions that would confuse the signal and so forth.

HUNTLEY: Let me ask this, 900, this 900 frequency it is the middle of the dial, right?

FAUSH: Yeah, in the center, yes. It is known because of that treaty that exists. That's not true for some other frequencies. There is one other that is called Canadian Clear. There are two treaties that are now in existence that are on the AM band that the treaty controlled. 900 happens to be one of them. The advantage is and so forth that there is a non-directional single. It's sort of like 01:22:00squeezing, if you had to have a conduit or a pipe that you were going to get water through and so forth. Depending on the diameter of that pipe, so matter what the lead in comes to it depends on a certain extent what is going to come out figuring pressure, resistance, and the other factors that go in to control it, as to how much you're going to get on the other end as it comes out this end. Which means in some [inaudible] it is considered a very good dial position. If you'll notice all around the country most of the lower frequencies were taken by those who were in broadcasting earlier.

HUNTLEY: Right.

FAUSH: Most of your Black stations or Black program stations are higher on the dial. Anywhere from 12 to 13 to 14 and on up to 16 some of them. None down at 01:23:00the lower end and that's because those are considered the better frequencies. Our does not have to be as high. You can get more non-directional signals which means that you can take, if you were using an automobile engine for instance as a yard stick to measure by in later years they can get as much thrust and horse power out of a four to six cylinder engine which uses less gas to propel that car as you used to get out of a big straight eight that burned a whole lot more gas. So, efficiency and other things are related to what I'm saying.

Anyway we wound up, as I said, to simplify it or somewhat complicated situation. We wound up on the same station. Without going into some of the other side 01:24:00stories and here we are. I've made an attempt to buy another station earlier and so forth and that's a real story and I won't get into that. At the time, I will say this about the earlier situation. I was in a position at the time that fortunately that northern Blacks in the stations were in.

I was assistant general manager of the station. It gave me access to a lot of the financial information and so forth about the operation of the station. It was because of that information that I carried that information to some people 01:25:00to say that this is the time to strike. We need to do this and so forth.

HUNTLEY: That was your position then?

FAUSH: Yes. One of these days I would like to show you some of my personal files at home. It's related to a lot of things you wouldn't even think to ask me. Anyway, when I carried it to them, and they looked at it. They said, God, persons were in other enterprises. When I showed them on people it exceeded anything [inaudible] they just didn't know there was that much in broadcasting. They don't want you to know. The only way I could get my hands on that was 01:26:00because of the position, I had at the station at the time. Well, it went on from there. I wound up on the short end of the stick. So, but the desire for ownership is still there.

HUNTLEY: You had learned that and of course I'm sure your appetite had been whet prior to then.

FAUSH: Oh, yes.

HUNTLEY: With that kind of information that of course would leave you to say this has to happen.

FAUSH: Oh, yes. You've got to keep going because you know the old story. They say Colonel Sanders was turned down 300 times.

HUNTLEY: That's right.

FAUSH: That's what the story says. On time 301 its history now.

HUNTLEY: That's the only one that counted. I know we have a long story to tell and we don't have time to do that today.

FAUSH: Yes.

HUNTLEY: I really appreciate you taking the time out, but I know I really need to sit down with you again.

FAUSH:Yes, there's some other things that, you know, internal, social things that the involvement from the church and other struggles and so forth. You know, I've served on the advisory board of the governor's economic advisory board. I learned some things from inside there, very, very few if any know anything about that I built a housing development, but I wound back up in graduate school back 01:28:00to A & M in 1977 in graduate school. In order to be able to compete and to provide homes for people who were not able to have them. There's one out in Woodlawn that bears my name. There are a few people who know that I chair the central committee [inaudible].

HUNTLEY: I think they will do that based on what you are doing and have done because that will become. . .