Rev. Calvin Woods

HUNTLEY: This is an interview with Rev. Calvin Woods for the Birmingham Civil 00:01:00Rights Institute's Oral History Project. I am Dr. Horace Huntley. We are at Miles College. Today is May 12, 1995.

Welcome, Rev. Woods. It is a pleasure to be here with you today and thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule.

WOODS: Happy to have the invitation.

HUNTLEY: Thank you. I just want to start by asking a few general kinds of questions about your family.

Tell me, where were your mother and father from. Were they from Birmingham or are they from other parts of the state?

WOODS: My father was from Prattville, Alabama, that's in Autauga County and my mother was born right out there in Eastlake, in Birmingham, right here in Birmingham.

HUNTLEY: Okay. Where were you born?

WOODS: In East Thomas in Birmingham.

HUNTLEY: How many brothers and sisters do you have and where did you fit into that number?

WOODS: There are 11 of us and I am number four. Five boys and six girls.

HUNTLEY: Okay. Tell me about your parents, their education and occupations. What did they do?

WOODS: Well, my father was a hard working man who worked for some approximately 40 years at McWayne Pipe Shop, additionally, in later years, God called him into the ministry and he became a pastor of the Shiloh Baptist Church in Norwood, where he pastored for 40 years. I presently pastor that church. And my mother 00:03:00was always a housewife.

HUNTLEY: Okay. So you are now pastor of the church that your father was pastor of?

WOODS: Yes, I am.

HUNTLEY: Second generation?

WOODS: Yes, I am.

HUNTLEY: Are you priming one of your sons to take it on later on?

WOODS: No. I am not. I don't think daddy primed me, but it just worked that way. However, I do have five sons who are already in the pastorate.

HUNTLEY: Is that right?

WOODS: So we don't know what direction the Lord will carry them in.

HUNTLEY: That's great. Tell me about your education. Where did you start elementary school?

WOODS: I started elementary school in East Thomas and that school only went to the 6th grade and after the 6th grade I think I got skipped about three times and along the way I went to Tuggle. I graduated from Tuggle and went on to high school.

HUNTLEY: Okay. And you went on to Parker High School?

WOODS: Parker High.

HUNTLEY: What was Parker High School like?

WOODS: Oh, it was exciting and it was thrilling. I had to begin at what we called the Parker Annex down near Lincoln school. And when you were in the 9th grade you had to go to the Annex. And after completing the 9th grade you would be able to go up to the main building and certainly we just looked forward to getting up to the main building. The Annex consisted of several small buildings like little houses.

HUNTLEY: Little white buildings if I remember?

WOODS: Yes, yes. It was very exciting. A lot of students and during that time Parker High School certainly was, if not, it was one of the largest Negro or Black high schools in the world.

HUNTLEY: That's right. What stands out in your mind most about Parker?

WOODS: Well, what stands out in my mind most about Parker was the zealousness of the teachers. The dedication of the teachers and the zealousness of students to excel and to achieve. We felt like we were really somebody. We had a great football team. We had the largest band that you had ever seen and there was just, it was just so great for us to be a part of that history that we had heard so many people talk about.

HUNTLEY: So many scholars, sociologists, psychologists suggest that during the period, Black folk looked at themselves as inferior. How would you react to a 00:06:00statement like that with the background of Parker High School?

WOODS: Well, we perhaps were inferior as it related to many opportunities that we should have had, but we were not inferior with ability nor inferior with our will to achieve and to excel.

HUNTLEY: When you were at Parker, what community did you live in?

WOODS: I lived in the East Thomas community.

HUNTLEY: You were living in East Thomas?

WOODS: Yes.

HUNTLEY: And you eventually moved out of East Thomas and you moved into Loveman's Village, is that right?

WOODS: That is correct.

HUNTLEY: Tell me about that transition.

WOODS: Well, when I moved from East Thomas to Loveman's Village I was married and of course, moving to Loveman's Village to a brick apartment, and oh, I felt 00:07:00that I was moving up in the world somewhat, at that time.

HUNTLEY: Let me back up just a bit. At Parker you were involved in a number of activities. Can you talk about some of those activities that you were involved in?

WOODS: Well, as I recall, at Parker High School I believe I was the president of my class from my 9th grade year through the 12th grade.

HUNTLEY: What year did you graduate?

WOODS: I graduated from Parker in January of 1950. I also participated in groups such as the High Y and also we had an organization that I believe we called the 00:08:00civic club, we would meet once per week and discuss community problems and current events. We basically would use the Birmingham World newspaper. We would listen to the radio and be observant of activities going on in our community. We would discuss what we could do to improve things.

HUNTLEY: Were there any adults in your community that you patterned yourself after or would serve as mentor for you, in your development?

WOODS: Yes. I had great admiration for my father, my mother and certainly for my pastor during that time, Rev. J. E. Hayes who was pastor of the First Baptist Church of East Thomas. As a matter of fact, all of the ministers in East Thomas, 00:09:00it was a close knit community and we finished one service at this church and we'd run to the other church and try to catch theirs. Also, there was a man in East Thomas by the name of Mr. Patterson who was president of the NAACP and they used to meet and have their meetings and I didn't completely understand it all when I started attending, but I grew to understand. I would go to the NAACP meetings.

HUNTLEY: This is as a young man, high school student?

WOODS: As a young man, yes. Yes, sir.

HUNTLEY: And you were attending the NAACP meetings? What were some of the issues? Do you remember any of the issues of the times?

WOODS: Yes, sir, there were issues of Blacks being beaten. Blacks being lynched. Deprivation of rights and things of that nature. And I was certainly very 00:10:00concerned about it.

HUNTLEY: So this was impressing a very young man, and in fact, it appeared to be preparing you for what you would encounter a little bit later in your life?

WOODS: I didn't realize it. Also, they would discuss overt police brutality during that time. It was very rampant and it was just bad at that time.

HUNTLEY: How would you compare, say East Thomas with Loveman's Village? The move from East Thomas to Loveman's Village? I know you are going really from sort of childhood to adulthood.

WOODS: Well, in some respects East Thomas was just as high above Loveman's Village to some extent as the East is from the West as it relates to knowing 00:11:00people. Coming up as a boy, I knew every person who lived in East Thomas. And if a new family moved in, we knew the new family. And anybody could chastise us. We were aware that they could do that. However, Loveman's Village meant better living facilities, you know. Better, comfort, a nice brick apartment for my family. So there were advantages in both of them.

HUNTLEY: You moved from Loveman's Village then to Enon Ridge, I believe?

WOODS: I moved from there to Enon Ridge.

HUNTLEY: What was that transition like?

WOODS: Well, that transition was, I had begun to buy a home and it wasn't the best, but it was a start.

HUNTLEY: It was yours though.

WOODS: Yes, it was mine. And God blessed me to live in Loveman's Village, I guess about eight or nine years and permitted me to make that move.

HUNTLEY: What was the Black community's relationship to the Birmingham police department?

WOODS: At what time?

HUNTLEY: During and after high school, prior to the development of the Movement.

WOODS: During and after high school?

HUNTLEY: Right. Between say '49 and '55 or so.

WOODS: Well, during that time, the police department was all Black and there was still --

HUNTLEY: The police department was --

WOODS: Was all White I mean.

HUNTLEY: Okay.

WOODS: Thank you. Was all White and there was still many Black citizens who would run when they'd see a police car coming, particularly at night if they see bright lights, they would run. You were addressed as "nigger" or as boy and at 00:13:00that time we didn't feel that the police was our friends. In spite of that, there were some good ones. And I remember one Friday evening I went to the grocery store, my wife and I. I came back out, got in my car and the car wouldn't crank. So I continued to try to get it cranked, try to get some help, I couldn't get any. So a policeman drove up and asked me what was the problem and he got my car cranked. And that changed my attitude to a great extent toward the police as a result of what that man did. He was White.

HUNTLEY: This is the first time that a White policeman had actually assisted you? In remember in a number of cities they have a saying on their door, the 00:14:00police are here "to protect and serve", so are you suggesting that?

WOODS: I wasn't aware of that at that time. The only thing, as a young man, I know this White policeman did get my car cranked for me and that made an impression on me and I said all of them are not bad. Of course, I'm certain that all of them never were bad but that was the perception because of the police commissioner that was in power at that time, by the name of Eugene "Bull" Conner.

HUNTLEY: So that helped to soften what you had felt about the police department?

WOODS: Yes, it did.

HUNTLEY: In 1956 the State of Alabama outlawed the operation of the NAACP in the state. As a result of that the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights was organized. Were you a part of that organization at the time?

WOODS: I was not present at the initial meeting. But I am quite certain I was there about the second meeting.

HUNTLEY: So it didn't take you long to get involved?

WOODS: No. It didn't take long.

HUNTLEY: Why did you decide to get involved in the Movement?

WOODS: Well, I had a dream one night. I saw a man, it was Rev. Shuttlesworth. I didn't even know him and it was a crowd in a church and the name of the church was Gaines Chapel, it's torn down. It used to be in East Birmingham. And I saw him standing in a pulpit. He had on a black suit, a white shirt and bow tie and he was standing up talking to the people about rights. And, of course, when the 00:16:00word got out that he had organized this group, I became very interested. And my mind ran back to when I had heard Rev. Shuttles worth preaching on a radio station. I believe it was WBCO or something like that. At that time he was working with the NAACP and all of that came to my mind. So I was interested. The word was out that the NAACP had been outlawed and the word was out that the organizational meeting had taken place down there, I believe, in one of Dr. Gaston's building. Down at Smith and Gaston they had a white building during that time. This is how I really started attending the meetings. But my 00:17:00involvement had not become as deep as it did later on.

HUNTLEY: Prior to that you actually attended Miles College right after high school and that resulted, because you had won a contest of some sort. Tell me a little about that.

WOODS: Yes. I attended Miles College right after I graduated from high school as a result of having won the Birmingham News-Post Herald Oratorical Contest. This was a contest between the various Black high schools within the city. And you had to select a subject to speak on and I chose the subject "Toward World Peace." And as a result of that I won and it wasn't much, but it was great 00:18:00during that time. It was a $100 scholarship and $25 and I used that to get into Miles at that time.

HUNTLEY: What do you remember about your transition from high school to college?

WOODS: I was very, very excited about going to college. And I just felt like I had already, almost reached the top of the world just being in a college setting. The teachers were very dedicated at that time. The campus was just loaded with students and the President at that time was Dr. Bell. And he too, as many others, was very dedicated and a courageous president. And he had, when he'd speak in chapel he would always have a concern about community.

HUNTLEY: Then Miles held some real status in the community, I assume. Is that correct?

WOODS: Oh, yes, Miles held great status in the community at that time.

HUNTLEY: Most Black people who were being educated in Birmingham, of course, was going to Miles College?

WOODS: Yes. Unless they went out of town.

HUNTLEY: Right. Miles being the only school, well the biggest Black school I guess at the time?WOODS: The biggest Black school. We had Daniel Payne which was not as large as Miles, but Miles was the school.

HUNTLEY: Then when the Movement, the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights is started, you, at that time were working, I assume? You were married?

WOODS: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Where were you working at that time?

WOODS: I was working at that time at the Phoenix Building downtown which housed the telephone company for Molton, Allen & Williams Realtors. I was working as a janitor or custodian at that time.

HUNTLEY: Were you pastoring?

WOODS: At that particular time, yes, I was pastoring.

HUNTLEY: What was your role in the Movement? How did you actually get started? What were the first things that you did?

WOODS: Well, how I really got started in a big way in the Movement was as a result of my speaking to my congregation and anybody I could, telling them that it was unconstitutional to be segregated on buses. I told and instructed our people to sit down wherever there is a seat. If you pay your money, don't get up 00:21:00for any White people, you know. If you get on, if there's a seat, you sit down and little did I know "Bull" Conner was monitoring my service.

HUNTLEY: You were actually encouraging people to break the law?

WOODS: Well, I felt that the law was unconstitutional. And I didn't, you know, didn't try to hide that and it was unconstitutional. And I preached it everywhere I went and they had dates where I had said it, and of course, they came to my job at the Phoenix Building one morning and they sent for me to come to the office. These two detectives were there and they hand cuffed me and carried me out. I didn't know why I was being arrested.

HUNTLEY: And why were you being arrested?

WOODS: For urging, allegedly a boycott of a legal business.

HUNTLEY: That was the charge?

WOODS: That was the charge.

HUNTLEY: Because boycotts were illegal at the time?

WOODS: Allegedly. However, as we went on through the courts, we found out that the law that they had arrested me under had been repealed in 1940. However, I was sentenced to six months at hard labor and fined $500 of which I appealed and had to go to the Alabama Circuit Court of Appeals. I was represented by attorney, our former chief justice, Oscar Adams, Jr. He represented me and of 00:23:00course, I had the backing and support of the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights.

HUNTLEY: Approximately what year were you arrested?

WOODS: This was approximately 1956 I believe. Just about the same year the Movement --

HUNTLEY: The beginning of the Movement?

WOODS: It wasn't long. I got involved very early. Yes. It was '56 or '57.

HUNTLEY: So, I assume then that you attended the mass meetings on a regular basis?

WOODS: I didn't miss.

HUNTLEY: Can you describe to me what the typical mass meeting was like?

WOODS: Just like a revival. Singing, praying, shouting, proclamation, 00:24:00inspiration, aspiration that came from each meeting. We had a minister to preach, his choir would sing. Additionally, we had the Movement choir that was started by such people as Miss Palmer, Freddie Palmer and her mother. Bo Gay, Mr. Frazier. Later Rev. Nathaniel Lee came in and took it over and a few years later, Mr. Carlton Reese came in. But it was always very, very exciting and we always looked forward to words of inspiration and guidance coming from Dr. Fred Shuttles worth. He always had a message to inspire the people and we would 00:25:00always go forth from that place very inspired, wanting to hurry and get back or to do whatever he told us we ought to.

HUNTLEY: Did this, the kind of fervor that was developing in the mass meetings on Monday night, did this have an impact on how Black ministers were preaching in their pulpits on Sunday?

WOODS: Well, let me say, it did have an effect on how a segment of them preached. But we still had some who they called "Uncle Tom." Who said, "You ought to leave this alone." But many of us were inspired as a result of the Movement and it continued to spread. And as a result of that, our people were inspired and each week the churches were just running over. We got to the point 00:26:00where we had to start using more than one church on a given night.

HUNTLEY: You had mentioned that you were monitored by Bull Conner in your sermons. How were you monitored? Did he come to your service?

WOODS: No. He undoubtedly had people there reporting because he knew what I said on different dates, on this Sunday, on that night and all of that. At my church, in particular, and things moved on to the point where he started sending policemen to the service at my church.

HUNTLEY: To your Sunday services?

WOODS: Yes, sir. To my Sunday services. They would park out front. Sometime one car, two and three right out in front of the church, intimidating the parishioners. So that went on for a long time.

HUNTLEY: Did you ever have any idea of who was reporting back to Bull Conner?

WOODS: Yes. We found out. It was a group of disgruntled people in the church who were reporting to him. We were able to secure the names of those persons who were not too happy with my leadership and I assume that they found those people and were certainly able to use them. Some of them testified against me at my trial and some of them didn't even know how to use the word boycott. They said, "He told us we were going to have a boy scout." So, but they knew exactly what they were talking about.

HUNTLEY: Did they return to your church after testifying against you?

WOODS: Oh, yes. Yes, they did.

HUNTLEY: Were other churches impacted upon in the same way that your church was? Were there others that had the police to come out and sit and attempt to intimidate?

WOODS: To my knowledge, I don't know. I'm not saying that there weren't, but to my knowledge, I don't have a reporting of them doing that in any other church other than the police attending our mass meetings.

HUNTLEY: Now, they didn't actually attend your church service?

WOODS: There were occasions when they did come in.

HUNTLEY: Is that right, and actually stayed?

WOODS: Actually came in and sat down and I preached until heaven's bells would ring and they would basically act very nice. I recall we had a business meeting 00:29:00scheduled. They came to the business meeting. They thought the people were going to get rid of me that night and they were there to encourage it on. But God smiled on us and of course, the Movement stood by me and also contacted the Justice Department in Washington, D.C. and they investigated the situation, I do not know how they did. But they investigated.

In a period of time I got a communication from them which stated that I may wish to take injunctive proceedings, which I did secure a lawyer to institute injunctive proceedings against the people who they had disturbing our church service, getting up, walking across in front of the pulpit when I'd get up to preach and doing things to disrupt. And that did bring us somewhat relief.

HUNTLEY: Were you or any of your family members ever harassed as a result of your involvement?

WOODS: Well, I did have a pistol drawn on me on one occasion by a disgruntled person who I felt was motivated by someone and God spared me. I also was fired from my job.

HUNTLEY: Were you fired after you were arrested?

WOODS: Yes, after I was arrested, I was fired.

HUNTLEY: Did you ever go to jail any other time during the Movement?

WOODS: Yes, I did go to jail in 1963. Many of us integrated lunch counters downtown.

HUNTLEY: So you were arrested at one of the restaurants?

WOODS: At Woolworth's.

HUNTLEY: At Woolworth's?

WOODS: At Woolworth's. And how long did you spend in jail?

WOODS: Five days.

HUNTLEY: The previous time that you were arrested on your job, how long did you stay in jail?

WOODS: Well, just one day. I was arrested that morning and was able to get in touch with my wife and she got my deacons came and got me out. It was dark.

HUNTLEY: So you didn't spend --

WOODS: No. I didn't spend the night.

HUNTLEY: But you spent five days the second time when you were arrested for the sit-in?

WOODS: I also worked on, in ditches.

HUNTLEY: What do you mean?

WOODS: Well, we had to cut trees down and bushes down. They would load us on a truck in the mornings and carry us out to work. We'd work out until the afternoon and they would bring us back.

HUNTLEY: Were there others that were affiliated with the Movement that were out there working with you?

WOODS: Very fortunately, my brother, Dr. Abraham Woods, Jr. and I were in the same cell and he went out and worked, he said somewhere out there in Hooper City. But we weren't working together. But there were others. Also Carlton Reese and I were in the same cell and during that time he wrote the song, We've Got a Job. All of God's Children Got a Job, and he asked me about it when he was, you know, getting it together that night. "How this sound?" So I can attest to the fact that he really wrote that.

HUNTLEY: Is that so?

WOODS: All of God's children really got a job.

HUNTLEY: Well, can you just give me a description of what being in jail for five days was like?

WOODS: Sure. It was rough. It certainly was tough and the sleeping was not good. And you had all kind of people in there. Some of those guys were hollering all night saying various types of things. The food was terrible. I had never eaten anything like that in all the days of my life. We went down and it look like it was some hard grits, no salt or anything in them and I don't know whether they call that coffee or what. It was more like grease, no sugar, no cream. I just couldn't eat and I tried. I came back for the next meal, whatever time it was. I said that I was not going to eat and I didn't eat. But late that evening, I ate 00:34:00and it taste like ice cream and cake. I was nearly starved to death. I just ate it. I was so hungry, it was awful but I ate it.

HUNTLEY: It taste like birthday cake?

WOODS: Your birthday cake. But the food was just horrible, just horrible.

HUNTLEY: What were the circumstances in your release after the five days?

WOODS: The circumstances of the release in five days was that we were bonded out. We were bonded out. That's the way we got out.

HUNTLEY: And you didn't have the occasion to go back to jail?

WOODS: No. Not after that.

HUNTLEY: Between the time that you were arrested and fired from your job as you 00:35:00were preaching in your pulpit and the '63 demonstrations, a number of other things took place. There was the Freedom Riders came through Birmingham, there were the efforts on the buses where the Movement was attempting to desegregate the buses. There was the Selective Buying Campaign developed by the students out here at Miles College. What were your participation? Was there any personal participation of yours in that period between say '59 and '63?

WOODS: Sure. I participated from the inception of the Movement throughout its entirety and whatever transpired, if I knew about it, I endeavored to be a part 00:36:00of it.

HUNTLEY: So you encouraged others to be a part as well?

WOODS: Yes, I did.

HUNTLEY: So your church was real active? Members of your church?

WOODS: There were members, some members of my church that were very active and after I was arrested then it seemed like I gained more support from the members and had more of a free hand. I had to go on and participate in the activities, however, you have always had some who were anti.

HUNTLEY: That were reluctant prior to your arrest?

WOODS: Yes. And you know what I found out? That the former pastor of that church, East End, Dr. C. J. Evans was present at the very first meeting of the 00:37:00ACMHR's organization. And some of the people there didn't like that. He undoubtedly talked about it and it wasn't too long thereafter.

Now, I began pastoring that church I believe in about 1957 when I went to East End. I followed Dr. Evans who took ill. As a matter of fact, I read that somewhere in some documents that he was present at the first meeting in the organization there. So there were some who were disgruntled with him. And when I came in, you know, being on fire about it, so it kind of spilled over.

HUNTLEY: I know that your brother participated. He was a real active participant. Were there others in your family that participated in the Movement?

WOODS: Yes. I had sisters who sang in the Movement choir and of course, when the children demonstrated, three of my daughters were arrested and went to jail.

HUNTLEY: How long were they in jail?

WOODS: They stayed in jail overnight. Just one day.

HUNTLEY: Okay. I am assuming you are speaking of the 1963 demonstration?

WOODS: Yes. 1963 demonstrations.

HUNTLEY: How old were they at they at the time? Were they high school age?

WOODS: No. They were elementary students.

HUNTLEY: And what schools did they attend?

WOODS: Washington.

HUNTLEY: Washington.

WOODS: Washington Elementary School. At that time I was living, let me see. 00:39:00Yeah. I believe it was Washington Elementary School. I believe I was still living in Loveman's Village. I moved out of Loveman's Village, it was, I believe in, they were probably at Tuggle. They could have still been at Washington also. Because I moved on Enon Ridge in 1962. In '62.

HUNTLEY: What were the circumstances of them being arrested?

WOODS: I didn't even know they were going. They just left school with the other children. And I was just appalled. They didn't ask me.

HUNTLEY: You were appalled at them being out there?

WOODS: Yes. I thought me being out there was sufficient.

HUNTLEY: What was your reaction? What did you do after you found out they were arrested?

WOODS: Well, I didn't know they were going. The three of them. I didn't know they were going. There was nothing I could say, you know. We were sowing the 00:40:00seeds of, you know, of wanting everybody to be involved, but I didn't expect those little girls were going to get involved in it. So they wanted their freedom too.

HUNTLEY: Did that frighten you that, you know, the possibilities that something could have happened to them?

WOODS: Well, during that time, Dr. Huntley, I really didn't have too much fear. I don't know. God moved it from me and I really didn't. It's hard to explain. But he just moved that fear. I was concerned for them and for all of the children, but I didn't have a fear.

HUNTLEY: How did other members of your family react to the participation of your family? Maybe your mother and your father or other sisters and brothers. Were 00:41:00their reactions positive?

WOODS: Their reactions were positive. I didn't experience any adversity from them. My mother was always telling us to be careful and prayerful. Be careful and prayerful. She always told us that and she prayed for us. And our father prayed for us. Daddy had been a courageous man in his way. He would always speak up. He didn't have the education that we had but he was always a man who would stand up and speak out regardless of the cost.

HUNTLEY: What were your responsibilities during the '63 demonstrations? The SCLC came into Birmingham I guess in April and the Alabama Christian Movement, of 00:42:00course, was already here and then started to prime the pump from April to May when the kids got involved. What were your responsibilities?

WOODS: One of the responsibilities that I had was that at some point along with Colonel Stonewall Johnson and Picket, I at some point became Chairman of the guards for a while, that guarded such places as Arthur Shores house and other persons home and some churches. I also served as one of the coordinators for the picketers. I also served on the negotiating team. I had been placed on the Board 00:43:00of the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights. So I did a number of things, you know, leading demonstrations and so forth like that.

HUNTLEY: I know that you led a number of demonstrations. You were never arrested?

WOODS: No. Not again. We were on the verge of it. We were prepared for it. But it just didn't come. We were manhandled and of course, on occasion, I was beaten, but I was not arrested again.

HUNTLEY: When you marched and you encountered policeman, can you describe what that feeling was like?

WOODS: Well, we expected viciousness and adversity from the police because of 00:44:00past history. And at sometime the atmosphere was more tense than at others. But we were determined to march on. At some occasions the police encountered the protestors and beat them but that did not deter the marches. It may have slowed it up at some points but we would regroup and go right back. So we were just prepared for any eventuality that would take place and we approached this in a non- violent fashion. We were instructed that we had to be non-violent and we were pledged and we were dedicated to that. Not to hit back. Not to strike back.

HUNTLEY: You participated, you say you were Captain of the guards for a while?

WOODS: For a while.

HUNTLEY: Can you tell me how that was organized?

WOODS: Well, I was organized. So much was going on until I was asked by somebody to work with them and we just asked certain men and women to work with us and we would give assignments where they would stay for a few hours as long as they could.

HUNTLEY: So there were women associated with the guards as well?

WOODS: Yes. There were some women also. Not to the extent that there were men, but there were some women also.

HUNTLEY: When you guarded specific places, were you armed?

WOODS: No. We were not armed. We would just -- some of the other men were armed. I could name a few. But most of us were not even armed. I don't know how we were 00:46:00guarding, but we were there.

HUNTLEY: You were there to see if anyone else came?

WOODS: I remember I had one of my small sons with me and something just told me to get up. I wasn't guarding that particular place. It was in the wee hours of the morning and I went down, I went to my brother's church and a White man had

WOODS: I took off behind him. Didn't have a sling shot or anything.

HUNTLEY: You saw him at your brother's church and what did he do?

WOODS: When he saw me turn the corner right there, he ran and got back in his car. And I took off behind him. I don't know what I was going to do. But until it dawned on me that I was following this man.

HUNTLEY: You did not have anything and you did not know what he had?

WOODS: Not a thing in the world but Jesus -- but the Lord.

HUNTLEY: You didn't catch him?

WOODS: No. I stopped. I don't know what I was going to do if, you know, just like that and some of the other brethren can tell you things that were even more exciting of what they experienced being on guard duty and many of them dealt with it to a greater magnitude than I did, because in later years I did that. 00:48:00But some of those older men like Stonewall and Pickens and people like that, Ms.

Holloway, they were in the thick of it when many of the bombings were taking place. They could tell you about the different cars they'd see come by and all of that.

HUNTLEY: Right. Share with me just briefly about your participation on the negotiating team?

WOODS: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Can you give me just any information or description of what those negotiation sessions were like?

WOODS: Well, we had negotiating sessions at City Hall, I believe it could have been during the tenure of Albert Boutwell who was the mayor and even during the time of George Seibels. It extends a period of time and some asked me to speak 00:49:00because I was very out spoken. I'd speak out and they said I'd talk too much sometime. Also, David Vann, former mayor and I served on a negotiation transition team trying to bring the different factions together. We were getting ready to scale down the demonstrations and I was noted for being a hard negotiator because I was, as a matter of fact, they said I was a little outlandish. I was tough during that particular time.

I also served as convener for the Ministers Leadership Training Program that was a branch of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference which secured many jobs 00:50:00here in Birmingham and negotiated with many businesses. As a matter of fact, gave money to Miles College. Got businesses to give money to Miles College to the Birmingham Baptist Bible College and got businesses to put money in our Black bank to give advertisement to the Birmingham World and the other Black papers. All of them, as a result of our negotiations with companies such as these bakeries and so forth. We worked with that, we didn't get a lot of publicity about it, but the record is there that these things took place and on some occasion we had to call for people to picket some of the grocery stores.

HUNTLEY: So you have been obviously very actively involved throughout the Movement period.

WOODS: Yes. And we also dealt with police brutality. Throughout negotiation committees and so forth, like that.

HUNTLEY: Right. Well, Rev. Woods I want to thank you for coming out and spending time with us today. You have given us a lot of information and we will obviously be in touch with you because once we go through this we may want to sit down and talk with you again.

WOODS: All right. Thank you for inviting me.