Samuel Greenwood Interviewed on November 14, 2000

HUNTLEY: This is an interview with Mr. Samuel Greenwood for the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute's Oral History Project; I'm Dr. Horace Huntley. We're presently at the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute; today is November 14, 2000. Mr. Greenwood, I want to thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule and welcome to the Institute.

GREENWOOD: Thank you, yes sir.

HUNTLEY: Were you born in Birmingham?

GREENWOOD: Yes, I was.

HUNTLEY: Were your parents from Birmingham originally?

GREENWOOD: No, they're from Columbus, Georgia.

HUNTLEY: How many brothers and sisters?

GREENWOOD: No brothers and no sisters.

HUNTLEY: Only child.

GREENWOOD: Only child.

HUNTLEY: How much education did your parents have?

GREENWOOD: I would say, absolutely none.

HUNTLEY: What kind of work did they do?

GREENWOOD: Well, my mother worked at a Chinese restaurant on 3rd Avenue and 17th Street. I never my father until I was about 17 or 18 years old because he left 00:01:00Birmingham when I was just six months old.

HUNTLEY: Where did he go?

GREENWOOD: He went to Chicago.

HUNTLEY: So, you were born in what year?

GREENWOOD: February 14, 1920.

HUNTLEY: Those were some tough times and that period, of course, in 1919 in Birmingham, they had a force called 'Lynching Bs' where they actually lynched Black folks and there would be a festive occasion, so, I'm sure there were tough times. What do you remember about those first days in Birmingham?

GREENWOOD: There were three incidents in my life that I shall never forget; among those--in our neighborhood there at 1621 3rd Ave South, dirt roads and 00:02:00seeing the hooded riders come to our neighborhoods at night many time, swinging from the Chevys or Ford with shotguns in one hand and handguns in the other. I remember those times and there were times they would run through our house and without knocking, mothers undressed--

HUNTLEY: Run through your house?

GREENWOOD: A White policeman, we knew that he was a police and we ran. We ran in the house and they thought we were trying to tell somebody about the whiskey or whatever that they might have had. But, they're looking for him because the White policemen were competing against each other for certain whiskey in our neighborhood and they wanted to know who sold to whom over here and they had different people telling them these things and as a result, we were always--

HUNTLEY: To get the kickback.

GREENWOOD: Yes, get the kickback. In fact, there was an incident that happened whereas one police killed another White police officer because of buying for this tray of whiskey in the Black neighborhood.

HUNTLEY: Is that right?

GREENWOOD: Yes, sir.

HUNTLEY: About, what year was that?

GREENWOOD: This must have been about 1928, '29 or something like that.

HUNTLEY: You had different segments of the police force making the effort to control the--?

GREENWOOD: Right. Oh, yes sir and these policemen would come with the white robes on through our neighborhoods, but underneath, the robe wouldn't be another police uniform. They didn't' try to hide too much from us, they didn't care. I do remember on the Fourth of July, an old (?) plane would come over the Black neighborhoods and drop exploding hand grenades and they would explode before they hit the ground. But, it would frighten us to death. That was the kind of 00:04:00intimidation that went on in our neighborhoods along with everybody who had a uniform--he was your boss, this was the person to tell you what to do.

HUNTLEY: Where did you start first grade?

GREENWOOD: The first school in Birmingham for Blacks, Cameron.

HUNTLEY: Cameron.

GREENWOOD: Cameron School on Ave H and 14th Street.

HUNTLEY: It was Cameron Lane eventually.

GREENWOOD: That's correct.

HUNTLEY: What do you remember about that school?

GREENWOOD: I remember we had to bring the coal in from the back to start the 00:05:00fire in the morning. We had to go outside the door into the bathroom; it was cold sometimes and one of the things I vividly remember is the fact that every year we got books, the White books, with back torn off them, pages missing, but this is what they gave us.

HUNTLEY: Used books that Whites used the previous years?

GREENWOOD: We got the used books, the old ones.

HUNTLEY: How far did you live from Cameron?

GREENWOOD: I lived about eight blocks from Cameron.

HUNTLEY: How did you get back and forth to school?

GREENWOOD: I had to walk. In fact, I moved to Titusville at that time and I was living at 1621 3rd Ave South and I had to walk over to Center Street. But, I had to walk.

HUNTLEY: That's quite a distance from Center Street.

GREENWOOD: It is.

HUNTLEY: Birmingham, in the 1920s and 30s, there were a number of things going on; one of the things going on is the whole issue of race, but also the issue of working class--people attempted to develop unions.

GREENWOOD: Oh yes.

HUNTLEY: When you left Cameron, before we get to that--when you left Cameron, where did you go?

GREENWOOD: I left Cameron and I went to Titusville and I lived out there for a while and I moved back to the Southside and I was going to the Washington School.

HUNTLEY: Where did you go to high school?

GREENWOOD: I didn't go to high school in Birmingham. In fact, I didn't go to high school at all, in fact, I came out of the service and I got a GED and went to some of the city colleges there and got a little bit and little bit there.

HUNTLEY: When you finished your schooling, you then went into the service?

GREENWOOD: No. I went to the service in December 5, 1941.

HUNTLEY: So, you were 21 years old at that time? What did you do between that times; did you go to work?

GREENWOOD: My mother passed when I was about 12 or 13 years old. I had to go from one relative to the other and they got tired of me and I had to go to another relative. So, I went around to different places; I went to New York City, Connecticut, Chicago with other relatives.

HUNTLEY: So, you were away from Birmingham then?

GREENWOOD: I was away from Birmingham; I left Birmingham when I was about 13 or 14, somewhere in that area.

HUNTLEY: When you left Birmingham, where did you go? Did you go to New York?

GREENWOOD: I went to Chicago?

HUNTLEY: With your father?

GREENWOOD: I never saw my father until I got to Chicago.

HUNTLEY: That was with another relative?

GREENWOOD: Yes.

HUNTLEY: How long were you there?

GREENWOOD: I was there for I guess maybe a couple of years before I went to New York and Connecticut.

HUNTLEY: Did you go to school there?

GREENWOOD: Yes, I went to school for a while in New York City, 79th and 3rd Ave in New York. But, my background was such--I couldn't keep up with them, I just couldn't. I went to Connecticut; I went to the highest little villages in the country, as far as wealth is concerned. I just couldn't keep up with them.

HUNTLEY: How did that impact upon you as a youngster?

GREENWOOD: I felt terrible about because I couldn't and I came back to New York City and wondered around because my aunt, who was responsible for my leaving the South, she was working for some people in domestic and she was doing the best she could for me. She got me out of this house because she wanted me to do this, but it was kind of hard. But, after leaving Connecticut, I was on my own. I was going from pillar to post trying to make it, working in stores or wherever I could. Eventually, I went back to Chicago.

HUNTLEY: There were a lot of opportunities for a young Black man at that time to get involved in things that were illicit. Was there a possibility for you? Did you see that out there?

GREENWOOD: Maybe that little background I had in Birmingham, trying to do the 00:10:00right thing and everybody was your parent and they saw you doing something wrong--maybe that held over because I never went to jail, only the Army.

HUNTLEY: This period again, the 30s, 40s; in particular places like New York, Chicago, there were the Communist Movement was ripe. Were you ever involved or know anyone who was involved in any of those areas?

GREENWOOD: Yes. In fact, I had a cousin in Chicago and he went to California and he was involved with the Communist Movement. He had a theater group and I went 00:11:00to his group and met a lot of Communists. But, I was never the one to take out a card or anything like that. I was around them, yes. In fact, at that time, in New York City, Father Devine(?) was--

HUNTLEY: Tell me a bit about that. Did you ever attend any of his meetings?

GREENWOOD: Oh yes. Father Vine was a Godsend for a while there because of the fact that we could go to Father Devine and pay $0.15 for a meal. The women were going as domestic, they had a big building they--just the women. Men had a big building by themselves over here, but it was all Father Devine and the money--he had a big mansion in New Jersey and he married a young White girl. For a while, 00:12:00he fed the people.

HUNTLEY: Did you ever meet him?

GREENWOOD: I only got close to him once; I was coming from somewhere, I don't recall. There were women around a Duisenberg (?) and these women were carrying on over the Duisenberg and they were praying and moaning and carrying on. I said, "What's going on; this is Father Divine's car and he's in there getting a haircut." He was quite a character.

HUNTLEY: There was Father Divine, Danny Grace during those times.

GREENWOOD: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Aphol(?) Randolph in developing his car porters and many times, many of these movements, they were termed to be 'other than American,' anti-American in a sense. I know in the South, anyone that talked about racial equality, in many 00:13:00cases, they were termed Communists. But, the Communist had a relatively good record when it came to Unitarian movements and helping the poor and that kind of thing. Did you see that as

being the case with them? Was the attraction based upon them being helpful?

GREENWOOD: I think most people had idea that they were helpful because what we were going through, when I was a kid in Birmingham, Alabama; and Dr., I want you to know that there were some trying times when once a month, when I was a kid in Birmingham, you went to the welfare store, we had a little booklet and they'd give you some food. Well, after two weeks, food would run out and we just wished 00:14:00we had somebody to help us, Communists or whatever. Those were trying times and the people on the first of the month, they would come at people down a little rivulet, going into a big stream, going to 1st Ave and 14th Street, where the big welfare place was.

We would get in line, standing there; old people who were crippled, pulling baby buggies, wagons or whatever they could to put the little food that they were gonna get on there. It was quite a sight. I know that you were asked if you were Communist or whatever you were, if they could help you--

HUNTLEY: It didn't matter?

GREENWOOD: It didn't matter, really.

HUNTLEY: What was the transition like for you leaving Birmingham, a small Southern city to the megopolis of New York?

GREENWOOD: At that time, I wasn't sophisticated enough to really see the difference, but there was a difference. But, it was underhanded; here in Birmingham, you knew just where to sit and where to go. They'd have to kick you out someplace you were trying to go in the North there in Chicago. But Chicago, there was a demarcation line there and you didn't step over it because during that time, the police were almost as bad as in Birmingham. It wasn't quite that obvious, but they were something else wherever we went.

HUNTLEY: Did you anticipate any differences?

GREENWOOD: I anticipated that there would be differences, but you have to be there a while because the fact that the 20s that they had the big race riot there--

HUNTLEY: In 1919.

GREENWOOD: Right on the beach.

HUNTLEY: Right.

GREENWOOD: Killed a young boy.

HUNTLEY: That's right.

GREENWOOD: The police, they weren't quite as rabid as they were here because here, everybody who had on a uniform, whether it's a policeman, fireman, ambulance driver, if you had a uniform, he was your boss. Birmingham, you had to say, "Yes, sir, and no, sir."

HUNTLEY: Many times they didn't have on uniforms and you had to say these things. What was the circumstance of your meeting your father in Chicago?

GREENWOOD: That was kind of an embarrassing moment because we were poor and my father--.I didn't even know him until I was about 14 or 17 years old. I never felt that he was my father; although I was around him for a short amount of time.

HUNTLEY: Didn't have that feel?

GREENWOOD: No, never had that feeling as a father. Had he been a father, he would have seen about me or write my mother. My mother struggled and she died at a very young age.

HUNTLEY: At the age of 21 when you went into the military?

GREENWOOD: I went into the military from Chicago.

HUNTLEY: What was that experience like?

GREENWOOD: Well, let me put it this way, doctor, I dug every outhouse from America to--it was Germany and France because I just thought that somewhere along the line, "I'm a soldier in the US Army, if I get killed for the country and they treat us the way they did." We slept in pup tents while down the road, the other White soldiers slept in perennial tents and during one time, this 00:18:00rain, we had--I'd give them my half of the tent, we'd put it together and make a pup tent and his feet would be sticking out in the rain and nobody cared. We had what you called mattress covers and we'd go out to farmers' field and get straw to sleep on. It was rough.

HUNTLEY: So again, it wasn't a panacea when you arrived in the military?

GREENWOOD: No, sir. In fact, I was over where the 332nd fought World War. I was a service company with trucks. We serviced the 52nd Fighter Group, which was White and the 332nd Fighter Group, which was Black. I used to look up in the mornings around the airfield in Italy and see the big bombers going over first, then about an hour later, P-51s, they would go with the bombers to protect the 00:19:00bombers, go out there and drop the bombs, but the 52nd fighter group, they would go also over, but, they would leave the bombers and go try to find German aircraft to shoot down. But, the Black guys stayed with them all the way there and back. Once we got back to Italy, the Black pilots could not go to the service area, they could not go over to the White officer's tent. But, British officers allowed them to go to their tent. That mentality just made me be (?) all the way through.

HUNTLEY: So, they could go to--the British would allow them--they couldn't go to their own service lot?

GREENWOOD: They couldn't go their own service lot. Why I know that, because of the fact that the neighbor, in my older years, he just died this past year, was a pilot in the 332nd. I lived on the 3rd floor in a place called Chan(?) Village 00:20:00Co-op in Chicago, he lived on the 1st floor. I saw his children grow up and marry and Kirkpatrick was his name. Well, he told me this and he was a pilot. He was 25 years old and he was the oldest man in the group at the time from Tuskegee.

HUNTLEY: That is something that you had to go through all that, although you were fighting for democracy--

GREENWOOD: That got to me, Dr., that really got to me. The White officers would send us cigarettes. Now, cigarettes were only five cents a pack when we first started out. Then they got to ten cents or twenty cents or whatever. But, over in Europe and in Africa, we could sell a pack of cigarettes for $20. Now, the White officers would give us what they call the 20 grands or wings or some of these cheap tasting cigarettes and they were awful. We knew they treated us this 00:21:00way, but they did everything in the world to us and I just rebelled against it. So, I was always digging outhouses because that was my extra duty.

HUNTLEY: Were there others that rebelled in the same manner?

GREENWOOD: Very few of them.

HUNTLEY: So, you were somewhat of an outcast?

GREENWOOD: I was. The officers called me out one day, had the whole company come out--126 men and I stood in front and he said, "My company says that all the problems we're having is because of this guy here. He could be the first sergeant if he wanted to." They stayed on me. I went to North Africa to Italy three times. But, the fighting was so fierce in Italy at that time, that I had to come back on a DC-4 and back and forth. They wouldn't let me stay in one 00:22:00place. They wanted me to go with the company, wanted me to go with the officer who said that I was raising all this sin and I stayed with him

HUNTLEY: Why would they send you with him?

GREENWOOD: Because he didn't want me to be back here with the rest of them.

HUNTLEY: You would create problems?

GREENWOOD: Right. The roads were--at that time, the fighting was right outside of Naples and the roads were so full of troops going up and troops coming down til we couldn't have the truck company there. So, I went back to North Africa and--eventually we did come back and that's where I met the 332nd fighter group at.

HUNTLEY: How long did you stay in the military?

GREENWOOD: Four years the first time. Two years the second time from '50 to '52.

HUNTLEY: When you got out of the military the first time, what did you do? Did you go back to Chicago?

GREENWOOD: I went back to Chicago.

HUNTLEY: Did you work or find a job?

GREENWOOD: I found a job, but it was just a menial job at a hotel. I came back to Birmingham around '47 and started working for Eastern Airlines.

HUNTLEY: You were here for a couple of years?

GREENWOOD: Yes, I was here until '50, I was working for Easter Airlines and worked across the field there and saw the Army Reserve and said, "This is so boring here." I joined the Army Reserve and stayed about six month's active duty for Korea. But, I didn't go to Korea; so when I got out, instead of coming back to Birmingham, I stayed in Chicago.

HUNTLEY: Now, when you returned to Birmingham, I know many of the soldiers that went away and came back, particularly males from the South and I'm sure from the North as well. When you returned, you find many times that conditions you're 00:24:00supposedly fighting for democracy of the world, but you come back and find that the conditions are just as bad when you left.

GREENWOOD: Absolutely.

HUNTLEY: How did that impact upon you?

GREENWOOD: I don't know because I asked a lady who was just a friend. She tried to help me even when my mother was living. For her, I was just trying to do the best I could for her and I accepted and when I think back over it, it was sophisticated in Chicago, but here, you know where you stood.

HUNTLEY: You went back in the military when?

GREENWOOD: In '50. Because I was working for Eastern Airlines and in '50, I went 00:25:00and stayed two years.

HUNTLEY: Has the military changed since; because by then, Truman had integrated the service?

GREENWOOD: You're right and I'm glad you made that point because I got into a headquarters company and we had about seven or eight trucking companies under us. Now, each company had about 126 men and (?) with White companies and this is the new thing that I was no longer segregated, but, we had some trouble.

HUNTLEY: What kind of problems did you encounter?

GREENWOOD: Most of the problems were with our officers trying to tell the White officers--as far as initially, we didn't have any problems with them. It was all cut and dry so--

HUNTLEY: You recognize that there had been a change from when you were in before?

GREENWOOD: I don't know whether it was then, obviously not. I don't know exactly--

HUNTLEY: After you then served your time and you got out of the military this time, where did you go?

GREENWOOD: I went back to Chicago because I had put in an application for a bus driver in Chicago. And, after this length of time that I stayed the Army and when I came back, I was called back to Chicago as a bus driver and I drove the bus for about seven or eight years.

HUNTLEY: Now, the 50s, things are happening you know. You have the Brown vs. Board of Education decision and then, the Movement starts with Montgomery Bus 00:27:00Boycott. Did that have any impact? Were you following that during that time?

GREENWOOD: Oh yes we were. We were following that at that time and I'm trying to think of what kind of impact that it did have on me. It was always obvious to what was going on as far as racism is concerned. I never hesitated to talk about it. But, trying to make it and I had sympathy, but I don't know what I had did for the Movement. I don't even remember what I did for the Movement.

HUNTLEY: But you were aware that change was taking place?

GREENWOOD: Oh yea. I've always regretted why I didn't do something but, Dr., I left here in uniform in Birmingham. I remember a Look Magazine guy was on the street in Birmingham, somewhere on 20th Street and 5th Ave, wherever. But, I was in uniform and he said, "How do you feel out there wearing a uniform in Alabama, 00:28:00the way you're being treated?" I don't what kind of reply it was at that time, I don't remember.

HUNTLEY: You say Newsweek?

GREENWOOD: It was either Look Magazine or--

HUNTLEY: One of the national publications?

GREENWOOD: Yes. It was a national publication, right, right.

HUNTLEY: But, he did raise that question?

GREENWOOD: He did raise that question; I don't know what answer I gave him, I don't recall.

HUNTLEY: During the time of the struggle was taking place here, let's say between '56 and maybe '65, what was happening in Chicago?

GREENWOOD: Well, we had our own problems; racism in the police department was still run by Mayor Daley and whatever the police did is the same way it is now. But we didn't have the officers like--we didn't have officers because they were just getting into the police--they worked as policemen, but no big rank because 00:29:00all the rest of those guys had tenure, the White officers. So, we were struggling in Chicago; we had our problems there, trying to get jobs because at that time, we were trying to fight to get counter jobs for women in the big department stores.

HUNTLEY: At that time, you were driving the bus?

GREENWOOD: I was driving the bus, that's right.

HUNTLEY: You drove the bus for seven or eight years?

GREENWOOD: Yes.

HUNTLEY: What did you do after that?

GREENWOOD: After that, I left the bus and started as a salesman for a cosmetic company.

HUNTLEY: Was this an effort to do something to elevate yourself economically?

GREENWOOD: That's what I tried to do. I had a truck that I sent directly to the 00:30:00beauty shops all over the city of Chicago. But, they didn't have the type of business the Whites had because if you went into a White shop, the owner bought all the supplies and took the money that way. But, in Black shops, each operator did their own thing and they didn't have much money, they couldn't buy the supplies and I was just spinning my wheels and trying to create a business there. But, it wasn't successful.

HUNTLEY: How long did you stay there?

GREENWOOD: I stayed there about three or four years trying to make it.

HUNTLEY: Chicago, now you're talking about the mid-60s; were you there in '68 during the Convention of Chicago?

GREENWOOD: Yes, yes, oh yes. Brother Daley beat us up so, yes sir. Oh yes. I remember seeing on TV, in the papers there whatever. That was quite something. 00:31:00It was mostly Whites involved, mostly White, young--

HUNTLEY: Young, White kids and of course, they had the Chicago 8 trial at the time and Bobby Seale was involved in that.

GREENWOOD: Oh, that's right because he came over there on the west side and they shot through the walls, that's true.

HUNTLEY: That, Fred Hampton, Mark Clark, they were leaders in the Black Panther Party, Hammerhand(?) was the--

GREENWOOD: Hammerhand (?) was the man.

HUNTLEY: They actually murdered Bobby Sutton--

GREENWOOD: They did because they shot through the wall. We had a guy by the name of Gloves Davis, who was a Black police officer and he was terrible. He was with 00:32:00Hammerhand, going into--

HUNTLEY: Of course, at that time, the Blackstone Rangers were in Chicago.

GREENWOOD: They were.

HUNTLEY: Then, the Black Panthers got involved with that; was there any--

GREENWOOD: I remember going to a rally with Reverend Jesse Jackson because one of the preachers in his alliance, whatever, in his group, said something about the way the Black Stone Rangers were doing. Now, you got to know about the Black Stone Ranger, they went pretty deep. There were monies to be given and Stone was a big insurance man. He gave the Black Stone Rangers money for whatever reason, I don't know. But, the Black Stone Rangers were doing nothing but selling dope, 00:33:00they were intimidating people and all of that. But, one of the preachers in Reverend Jesse Jackson's group made remarks about him, the Stone. They burned his church completely to the ground, yea.

But, there were elements working with the Black Stone Rangers, just in neighborhoods. Why Mr. Stone, the biggest insurance man in Chicago gave the Black Stone Rangers money, we never know.

HUNTLEY: There were also some suggestions that eventually, Mark Clark and the Black Panther Party would have an impact upon trying to stop some of the gangsterism of the Black Stone Rangers and other gangs. Were you familiar with any of that taking place?

GREENWOOD: No, I wasn't familiar with that. But, I do know, sir, that they were 00:34:00so different. I remember the Black Panthers were trying to help the young kids and I don't remember any of the Black Stone Rangers trying to help anybody like that.

HUNTLEY: Right. This period, suddenly, '65 to '70, there was a Black Power Convention, I believe that was '70 or '71 or so, the Black Power Convention, well there was one in Chicago, there was one in Newark, I believe and then, of course the political--the Black Political Conference, that was held in Gary, Indiana and all of these things are taking place this is right after the death of Martin Luther King. When Dr. King was assassinated, how did that impact on Chicago?

GREENWOOD: If we weren't completely involved the Civil Rights Movement, we just felt the loss. Everybody was hurt; it was like when Roosevelt--maybe when he died, remember the people were just crying and carrying on and it was the same thing with Dr. King. You just wouldn't believe it. But, I think he kind of warned us about what was going to happen to him. I think most of us kind of prepared, many of us were. We didn't think it would be so rapid, one behind the other, like Bobby--we just didn't believe that America would do that to us, but--and they're still doing it to us.

HUNTLEY: It did happen.

GREENWOOD: Dr., I want to tell you a little bit about Indiana. I moved to Gary, Indiana about four years ago. I retired from my work for the Board of Education in Chicago; I moved to Gary and it was a little wooded area, nice and quiet--deer, ducks and geese. I was just tired of listening to that sobbing all day and all night, where I was living 84th and Cottage Grove. I moved out there and I volunteered for the police department, after a while, they made me a job. The Government gave them some money, so--that is something. I have to read to you one day about this poem that I had written about Gary because all the Whites left.

They left the buildings, they left their businesses and I mean, they moved down 00:37:00the road where it's called Maryville now. All these dilapidated houses are still there, dope is rampant, homicide is higher than Birmingham and we only have 116,000 people living there and you have almost a million here. But, our homicide rate is something else, you got guns coming from everywhere into Gary. Dope is rampant.

HUNTLEY: So, you were moving out to get away from it all?

GREENWOOD: That's right and that's why I decided to come back here.

HUNTLEY: You had mentioned earlier that you sold beauty supplies. What did you do after that?

GREENWOOD: I got a job in the maintenance department for the board of education and I stayed there until I retired.

HUNTLEY: Oh, okay. Did you work at a particular school?

GREENWOOD: Yes, I worked at a particular school and in fact, I worked at a 00:38:00couple of schools, maybe three or four school. You know, they had what you call a roaming crew; there certain things that janitors couldn't do like the lawns or the trees or whatever we did there. We called them roaming crew. But, after I retired from the board of education, I volunteered in the classroom for five years, to help the kids. I would read little poems to them or whatever to try and help until the board of education says that we can't have the EMH--we can't put them in a special class, we have to put them all together and that was a bad thing. After that, I had to get out because the kids were--the EMH kids were---

HUNTLEY: What are EMH?

GREENWOOD: Emotionally Handicapped. It was just something and I left there.

HUNTLEY: So, you write poetry?

GREENWOOD: Oh yes.

HUNTLEY: How did that start?

GREENWOOD: I don't know Dr, it was just from what I saw as a kid in Birmingham, like house rent parties, like with the two or three-room houses, shotgun houses and there were tin roofs the rain would be beating--it's just what I saw. The people going to the welfare store and they come in groups, merging into a big string, going in there and how bad we were treated once we got inside there, how the man would throw the food at us and all of those things.

HUNTLEY: You have a poem that you can read to us?

GREENWOOD: Sure, yes sir. I thought you might like this. Here's one, Dr. it's called, We Done Survived. Let me get my glasses here.

HUNTLEY: It's about life, isn't it?

GREENWOOD: Popped, marked and burning, it was a mean old road when it come down

Planting, picking and pulling, toting another man's load

Work morning til night, clear infested swamp land, planting and cutting sugar cane

Broken tame wild horses, history don't even know our names, but we survived.

Built a big house with swown(?) staircase, ornate doors, while the master practice a refine art of living on hand-and-knee-polished floors.

Hand-carved beds with canopy high, made the mattress would sit it down, we slept on bags of corn shucks and moss on a cold, cold ground.

We butchered the hog and cured the meat, all we got at Christmas time is the skin and cuts and the pea, but we survived.

Back at us, dusty roads, washed shed, shotgun shacks, Saturday breakdown, 00:41:00catfish, pig ears, pig feet and $.25 cents bottles of home brew. "Keep our (?) table, boy and I'll keep out of jail" says the big boss man, fist fights, razor slashing, bodies gutted like hogs on a killing floor, come Sunday morning, a sleep tide washing away the blood of Saturday night, calling sinners to take their place on a mourners(?) base and through it all, we done survived.

HUNTLEY: That's deep that is deep. Read another one to us.

GREENWOOD: Okay. This is called, Traveling Man: He was a traveling man, he was a (?) line, he's gone now, all he left was a good name, a gold watch and chain.

35 years, still pounding steel, can see him now, bowed and bent, worked hard like the rest 'cause the system because of color paid him less, White against 00:42:00Black, Black against White, the rich man's scheme, but he held fast to worker's dream.

As a child, I sat on his knee, he spoke a (?) along the track, Black man swinging from a tree, while demons and rows of Whites danced in ecstasy. Knight Riders terrorized the countryside, lit the midnight sky; Black breathing hands reached out asking a reason why

(?) answered their cry, "It's July, they rang the Liberty Bell" some of us freedom, other was living hell, (?) clouds through the sky reflecting cotton fields below, while ragged fingers pulls sacks of misery down each row.

Well, these was (?) to the young in line, (?) make it time. Grandfather (?) job in the yard, a short time later, he was dead, died of a broken heart. Whenever a train whistle blow, I see Black faces, sweat dripping from every pore. Home of 00:43:00the brave, land of the free were only that mocked me.

HUNTLEY: What's the inspiration for your poetry?

GREENWOOD: I don't know, I just know that I wish that I had an education that I could have been--maybe I might have been somebody near some of the poets that we have today like Langston Hughes or some of those--

HUNTLEY: Have you ever thought about publishing your work?

GREENWOOD: I have thought about it and I said once I get down South, everyone gonna try to get me a proofreader and try to get something published.

HUNTLEY: That would be great because that's life. They said that nobody can write that but you.

GREENWOOD: I saw it, Dr. it was something, yes Lord.

HUNTLEY: So, you decided then to--after--how many years--four years in Gary?

GREENWOOD: Right--

HUNTLEY: ----to come back?

GREENWOOD: I have a cousin who lived in New York City and she worked for 00:44:00Columbia University and she was working in the department where they get the Doctorate, the PhDs whatever and she decided she wanted to come back because we were all raised in Birmingham at an early age. And she said, "I just wanted to come back." So, we got together and we got a house out in Midfield. So, we live together there now.

HUNTLEY: Were you ever married?

GREENWOOD: Oh yes. My wife about 15 years ago and I never remarried.

HUNTLEY: Did you have children?

GREENWOOD: I have a step-daughter and grandchildren, yes. They're in Chicago.

HUNTLEY: So you been to Birmingham now for--?

GREENWOOD: About six months.

HUNTLEY: How has that transition been?

GREENWOOD: It was a little harder getting adjusted to it, but only from the point I miss my friends being there all the many years. But, I adjusted, I'm getting ready to join Antioch Baptist Church over here.

HUNTLEY: That's great. It's great to have you back.

GREENWOOD: Oh yes, I'm glad to be back.

HUNTLEY: We know that you're volunteering here at the Institute.

GREENWOOD: Oh yes.

HUNTLEY: We really appreciate it.

GREENWOOD: Dr. I'm really happy to be back. One of the things I thought when I came back, I would see some of my old landlords, but nothing's here, they're all gone. All on the Southside there--

HUNTLEY: UAB has taken most of that.

GREENWOOD: Europeans taking everything.

HUNTLEY: Well, I really want to thank you for taking time out of your schedule and you've been very enlightening, and you helped an awful lot.

GREENWOOD: Okay, well, I appreciate that, sir. I'm glad to be here of service, yes, sir.

HUNTLEY: Thank you.

GREENWOOD: Thank you