Reuben Davis, II Interviewed on March 20, 1996

HUNTLEY: This is an interview with Mr. Reuben Davis for the Birmingham Civil Rights lnstitute's Oral History Project. I am Dr. Horace Huntley. We are at Miles College and today is March 20, 1996. Thank you Mr. Davis for coming and taking time out of your busy schedule today.

DAVIS: The pleasure is mine.

HUNTLEY: I would just like to start by asking general questions about your background.

Tell me, where were your parents from?

DAVIS: Both of my parents are from Montgomery County. My dad came out of Tuskegee around Meigs, Alabama and my mother was born in Montgomery.

HUNTLEY: When did they move to Birmingham?

DAVIS: Well, they married in Montgomery and I was born in 1923. I have an older brother born about 1917, so somewhere in that area they came to Birmingham, around 1915 or 16 they moved to Birmingham for better employment. My dad was living on a farm around Meigs.

HUNTLEY: Did he own his own farm?

DAVIS: No. His father died early. And, so he had one brother and several sisters and my grandmother lived to be about 115 years old. She stayed there and educated two of her daughters on that farm and finally my uncle and my dad went to Mt. Meigs and brought my grandmother back here. But, my dad worked in the mines at first.

HUNTLEY: Coal mines or ore mines?

DAVIS: Coal mines. He worked coal mines for a short period of time, he and his 00:02:00brother. His brother stayed with the mines until around about 1950. He left and went to Detroit and started working for Chrysler. But, both of them worked a short period of time. My dad got scared and came out of the mine.

HUNTLEY: How much education did your parents have?

DAVIS: Well, my father's education was limited. I think he went maybe to the primary grades. My mother was similar. Education opportunities were very limited for both of them.

HUNTLEY: Did she work outside of the home?

DAVIS: No. My mother never worked out of the home. She was a housewife and a mother.

HUNTLEY: How many brothers and sisters did you have?

DAVIS: I have two brothers and two sisters.

HUNTLEY: Where did you fit in that group?

DAVIS: Well, I was the knee baby. In other words, they had to give me a title because when they started to call my baby sister, the baby, then that created a problem for everybody, because then they said I was a knee baby. My brother was 00:03:00the oldest and my sister, then I came in and then my other sister. Two boys and, then the girls followed.

HUNTLEY: What community were you raised up in?

DAVIS: In Collegeville. I was born within about five miles of where I live today. And the strange thing about it, I've never had a change of address other than military time. I never had any intention of ever leaving Birmingham. Even during the crises and before and all the hardship that we were going through, I still felt that Birmingham was the place to live. I never did leave.

HUNTLEY: Well, how would you describe your community in Collegeville back in the days when you were growing up?

DAVIS: When I was growing up, the only White people to live in Collegeville were Italians. But, according to census track, there were 8,000 Black people living within less than a mile square that went from the L&N Railroad down to US Pipe 00:04:00and, then from that to (Inaudible) Product, about less than a mile square was 8,000 Black people lived in that area. But, strange as it seems, in 1945, there weren't but 11 qualified voters, all men.

HUNTLEY: Out of 8,000?

DAVIS: Out of 8,000. Eleven qualified to vote. I could name those men because Dr.

A. V. Mitchell, I don't know if you've heard of him. We had two doctors that served that community. Dr. Macklin and Dr. Mitchell. Dr. Mitchell was a surgeon and Dr. Macklin was a just a medical doctor. There were a few other miners that were qualified to vote, but just 11 men, and I was one of the 11.

HUNTLEY: So you had an array of people in terms of occupations that lived in 00:05:00that community?

DAVIS: Oh, no question about that. The community at that time, in the mornings about 6:30 you could see men going to work in different directions. L&N was to the east, US Pipe and ACIPICO was to the west, Sarenton Mines was to the north and, then, you see ladies going to Norwood, which was where the ladies worked as maids and cooks. Another thing happened at that time. Black ladies would carry baskets on their head. They would put the clothes on their head and walk to Norwood to their jobs. In the evening they would come back, bring those clothes, wash and iron them and carry them back.

HUNTLEY: Why don't we see women today with clothes on their head walking?

DAVIS: I tell you one thing, I have had quite a bit of experience from 00:06:00traveling. Montgomery was noted for women that worked at some Black farmers garden. They would go and shell butter beans and peas all day long, but they were graceful. They could walk with a bucket of water on their head and not waste a drop. But, I've never seen a White woman with that. Another thing that puzzled me about the character of Black women in particular, they had a tendency to be graceful. Some of the teachers at Hudson would teach young girls to walk with books on their head. Somehow, we don't look that way now.

HUNTLEY: So is that where you started first grade at Hudson School?

DAVIS: That's when I first started school. I was wonderful. I was a mamma's boy and I didn't like being away from my mother. My first day at school, Miss Hill 00:07:00was my teacher. I had a midi-blouse on and they had greased me up with lard, had me all shiny and getting to school, I wanted to be at home with my mother. And, so there was a young fellow in front of me, I never did understand how he knew how to get out. I heard him say, "Miss Hill, may I be excused?" And, so, she said, "Yes." I saw him walk out. I said to myself, "That's the way to get out." So, when he came back I asked if I could be excused. She said, "Yes." I didn't stop until I got home. But in the meantime, after getting home, my mother was hanging (Inaudible). And, so I made up my cry just before I arrived to our home. And she jumped up and said, "What's the matter?" I said, "Somebody took my lunch." Well, this was early before lunch period. She said, "Wait a minute." She went in and got a switch and went across my neck all the way back to school. And Miss McQueen, which I don't understand why we don't have a strong truancy program today, because that lady, Miss McQueen, which was a Birmingham City 00:08:00Truant Officer. My mother said, "I'm going to give you Miss McQueen." So I went over, Miss McQueen was going to take

me to Mt. Meigs to the boys reformatory school and she told me if I didn't stay in school that's where I was going. So, I was no more problem.

HUNTLEY: Did Miss McQueen live in your community?

DAVIS: No. No. I don't know where she lived. But she worked for the City of Birmingham. And, at that time, you didn't find kids out of school.

HUNTLEY: You had to answer to Miss McQueen?

DAVIS: You had to answer to Miss McQueen. And, when they called the roll, if anyone was absent that was supposed to be in the classroom, those names were turned over to Miss McQueen and she would visit the homes and find out what was happening. That was a holy day for me because I learned then that I had to go to school.

HUNTLEY: When you left Hudson, where did you go?

DAVIS: Well, you know at that time, Parker was overcrowded. Parker High School 00:09:00was identified as the largest Negro high school in the world. And, Ullman was vacated. It used to be white school, so I had to go to Ullman for two years and Parker the other two to finish high school.

HUNTLEY: So, it was Parker High School when you went or was it still Industrial High School?

DAVIS: It was Parker High School when I went. I didn't get to Industrial. Dr. Parker had died before I attended. But, one thing that was real strange to me as a lad. I had to ride Norwood streetcar to 11th Avenue South to walk about three blocks to Ullman. That's where Bell's building is on the campus now. That was Ullman High School. Well, I would pass Phillips on the bus, and I was curious, "Why do I have to pass a school going to school?"

HUNTLEY: Did you ever really raise that question at that time?

DAVIS: I raised that question. But, I found out that our teachers really wasn't 00:10:00sensitive to their responsibility of enlightenment. I think they were either controlled or something. But, they never could discuss such issues as that.

HUNTLEY: Why do you think that they could not discuss those issues?

DAVIS: Well, I kind of think that our school system, and I learned to accept it as being a fact, there was a bit of control there. I don't think the system, as such, was interested in the education of black people. They had to have a school just for the sake of having one in name only. If you got an education, it was a by­ product. But fortunately, we had teachers that were sensitive to our needs and they did what they could to really enlighten us. We lost a lot by integration. Those teachers, at that time, in other words, if you didn't get 00:11:00what you were supposed to do, or do it in the way that you should have done it, then you had a problem. Parents supported that.

HUNTLEY: What do you mean "We lost a lot because of integration?"

DAVIS: Well, what happened, I felt that, and I was in the process of working in the Bessemer School system at the time, but the black teachers were pulled out of black schools and put into the white schools. Plus the fact that they also created another area of education called vocational education and that was a dumping ground for kids that were problem kids. It was saying that after they couldn't measure up to a certain point, then it was a dumping ground. I was proud of vocational education, but I felt confident that a child to select a vocation was an asset, but the system itself had it as just something as a 00:12:00dumping ground for kids, because when I first started working at Bessemer, they wanted to give me the equipment that Bessemer High had used for 4 or 5 years and I refused to accept that. So I started there as a problem and eventually was fired.

HUNTLEY: Before we get into Bessemer, let me ask you what do you remember about your high school experiences at Ullman and Parker?

DAVIS: Well, the thing that stands out in my mind most is the fact that there was pride.

We had to wear a uniform, you had to have your shoes shined and everyone who attended Parker High School had to go to general assemblies. We would have programs and they were an enrichment to the student body. There was a sense of belonging and a sense of pride that stayed with me. All the students that was in 00:13:00school, along with me that graduated from high school, during the time that I did, they have been successful. I don't know one that didn't. One friend of mine that lived in Collegeville, Clifton Casey, he finally was in Tuskegee at the time that the airmen was down there, so he was in the Air force at Tuskegee and he later retired as an inspector of the Detroit Police force. He was also the first black person, or first person to fly a helicopter for the City of Detroit Police force. So there was a pride. There was an accomplishment from high school equivalent to my opinion, to college today, just from high school.

HUNTLEY: Were you active in any extra-curricular activities during high school?

DAVIS: No. I wanted to play football, but I was too small. Coach Collins had selections from all over the city and, therefore, he could pick all big boys. 00:14:00But, I really wanted to play football. My interest in sports was skating. I loved to skate. We lived in Collegeville and the only paved street in the whole community was where we lived, and we'd be out there skating during the Christmas holidays. And, the police were driving red cars at that time. And, for no reason, whatsoever, when the police car would come, the kids would run off because police officers were known to get you and call you to the car and wind the glass down and once you put your head in wind it up so you can't get it out and started hitting you upside the head. So, we'd run and hadn't done nothing.

HUNTLEY: I was going ask you that question about the relationship between the community and the Birmingham Police Department.

DAVIS: There was no relationship whatsoever between the city fathers and the Black community of Collegeville in particular. I don't know about any other 00:15:00community. But, the only service that we received from the City of Birmingham was a man that was called "the 10 gallon can man." And, you know what that was?

HUNTLEY: No. Tell me what was that?

DAVIS: "Ten gallon can man" was the man who would take the cans from the outhouse and dump those cans. That's the only service we had. No garbage service.

HUNTLEY: Was this a Black man or a White man?

DAVIS: It was a Black man. You see, Jerry was our man. He had his wagon and a mule and he would come in the alley and you had this tin can in the outer house. My job at home was dumping the slop jar in the tin gallon can. But we had no connection whatsoever. I remember, after coming out of the service in 1945, I called Birmingham City, at city hall and asked them if they would put a 00:16:00streetlight on 34th Street and 27th Avenue because that was an area where it was dark. The only streetlights were located in the area where they had these Italian stores. The rest of the community was completely dark. So, I talked to a man that was fair and he told me he would look into. The next thing I knew, the street light was there.

HUNTLEY: In your experiences in Ullman and Parker you said there "was a sense of pride", in their dress, in their well-being in the community?

DAVIS: That's right.

HUNTLEY: After high school, what did you do?

DAVIS: After high school, I went to work. I really didn't have any reason or any encouragement at all to go to college. At that time there was no incentive. No 00:17:00matter how much education you had, at that time I finished high school in 1943. You could be a preacher. You could be a school teacher. You could sell insurance or work on the railroad or be a postman. Those were the only jobs available. And, so, I wanted to be a railroad engineer and I was excited about going to the railroad. And as soon as I finished high school, I went to work.

HUNTLEY: What kind of work was your father doing?

DAVIS: My dad was an oiler for the railroad. He oiled and lubricated each (Inaudible }.

In other words, they would have two oilers, they were mostly Black, and their responsibility was to put oil and packing in the (Inaudible) to keep the train boxes from running hot. You see if it would run hot it would cause a wreck. One thing that was real strange about that, later I became seriously concerned about it. The Black men were helpers and the White employees were inspectors or car 00:18:00men. Now, here, a Black man is oiling the box and the inspector is supposed to come behind and check it to see if it's properly oiled. But, even if the box ran hot, the oiler, the Black man was held accountable for it. A lot of them lost their jobs because a box was hot or the train had to pull a car out.

HUNTLEY: So the inspectors were never held accountable?

DAVIS: That's exactly right. And, really, it was their responsibility. If they were inspectors, they were supposed to see to it being done right. But, if anything went wrong, it was always the helpers fault.

HUNTLEY: So, out of high school you went to work for the railroad?

DAVIS: Went to work for the railroad immediately.

HUNTLEY: What company?

DAVIS: The L&N.

HUNTLEY: What was your first job?

DAVIS: My first job was a laborer. My dad didn't want me to work for the 00:19:00railroad. In fact, at that time, if your parent or father or someone worked at the company and recommend you, you'd get hired. So, there was a neighbor that I knew, Mr. Lewis Berry, he worked out there and was the one that got me the job. My dad wanted me to go to Tuskegee, wanted me to go to school, but I didn't want to go to school.

HUNTLEY: You didn't want to go to school?

DAVIS: No. No.

HUNTLEY: You didn't see any need, whatsoever?

DAVIS: None, whatsoever. At that time, I didn't see any need for it. I was interested in getting married and, so I wanted a family and I needed a job and I was seriously concerned about a locomotive engineer, but there was no race issue ever discussed in our home. I didn't think about only whites could be an engineer, that never occurred to me at that time. So I started working as a laborer and from that I stayed with the railroad.

HUNTLEY: You said "it never occurred to you that a Black man couldn't be an engineer?"

DAVIS: It never occurred to me. I lived not too far from the L&N main lines. If you familiar with the Vanderbilt Crossing , it's a fish market right there. That was the main line. And I would see the passenger trains and the freight trains going north and south. At that time they had several passenger trains running around Birmingham daily.

HUNTLEY: Were there Black engineers?

DAVIS: No. No. No Black engineers. Black firemen. You would see a Black man as a fireman and a White man as an engineer. But, for some reason, in my mind locked on the power of that locomotive, but I wanted to be the one to pull that throttle, I really did.

HUNTLEY: You aspired to be an engineer?

DAVIS: That's exactly right.

HUNTLEY: So you went to work as a laborer?

DAVIS: To start at the bottom.

HUNTLEY: How did you progress?

DAVIS: Well, I found out that the engineer's job wasn't for me. And, I didn't realize the consequences behind that. I had backed off at that point until I 00:21:00went into the service.

HUNTLEY: So you worked for several years?

DAVIS: That's right.

HUNTLEY: Were you drafted in the service?

DAVIS: Yes, I was drafted.

HUNTLEY: Tell me about that experience.

DAVIS: Well, when I was drafted, in 1944, I noticed I wanted to be in the Army because I could swim. I learned to swim in Village Creek. We didn't have any pools or parks. But, I never could see myself swimming in the ocean, so I didn't want to go to the Navy, but they put me in the Navy. They sent me to Fort Benning, Georgia and I took an aptitude test and they decided that I would be in the Navy. But, what I noticed about that, going in the Navy, if you had a high 00:22:00school education or above, they would put you in the steward's branch in the Navy. If you had less than a high school education, they would send you to Great Lakes, Illinois, which was a naval base that train seamen for various crafts aboard the ship. The only stewards were cooks, and make beds, clean up the rooms or areas of the officers. So they put me in that area and here I was made for the whole war. I mean, just disgusted the whole time I was there.

HUNTLEY: Well, why? Did you expect to be put in another area?

DAVIS: Well, I wanted to be a naval officer. And, I felt I was eligible for that. I had 4.0 conduct and I was willing to take training. First, the Secretary of the Navy, whose name was Knox, I shall never forget it. There was pressure 00:23:00from all over the country to have, there was a B-12 program where blacks could go into to become naval officers. But Secretary Knox stated that before he would allow any black man to become a naval officers, they would fly the flag at half mast. And, they did that. After that, they began to have black naval officers. I never did get a chance to get into that area, because I had some serious problems and, from that I had a strange experience of hatred that built in my heart.

HUNTLEY: You said, "you were angry the entire time you were in there." How did that anger manifest itself during the time that you were there?

DAVIS: Well, what happened. I was made to shine officer's shoes. To make officer's beds up and to serve them with a little white coat on. I was in PT's. 00:24:00I was in the same outfit that President Kennedy was in. He was a "dollar a year man" and all of the men in the PT...

HUNTLEY: He was what kind of man?

DAVIS: Dollar a year.

HUNTLEY: What does that mean?

DAVIS: That means that he didn't accept a salary from the government. But the government won't allow you to work for them for nothing, so he was identified as a "dollar a year man." I didn't know him personally, but I knew that he was there at that time and he was PT boat 109. Well the training facilities were at Newport, Rhode Island. I was assigned to that unit to learn how to prepare the tables and cook, and this sort of thing. And I had some experiences at Newport that I think changed my whole life. There was a program where the steward, which 00:25:00was over us, he was a Petty Officer, but he was still a steward. Now, they wouldn't allow us to wear the crow on our arm. We wore a moon. A little white moon to indicate the rank, but White sailors had a crow and, then ranks under there.

But, however, the steward told me on this occasion that I was assigned to work in the officer's club. That night, when the club opened around 8:00 or 9:00 o'clock, then I was to go up there to work. They would pay you extra money for that but I told the steward, I said, "I don't care to work. Give it to someone else." He said, "You have duty up there." I said, "I don't care for the money." He said, "You got to go." I said, "If I have to go, when the bugles are sounding taps, I'm hitting my rack." Because I had to get up 5:00 that morning to go in 00:26:00the galley. So, that was the beginning of a serious change in my life. And, so I went up to the officers club and carried drinks from the bartender to the officers. They were dancing and drinking with their guests and what not.

So, when I heard the bugler sound taps, I had a drink in my hand, I put it down on the table and walked out. I went by the Executive Officer's office and wrote a note and explained to him what had happened concerning the stewards and steward's mates getting up at 5:00 o'clock in the morning to go to work and working until 2:00 and 3:00 in the morning at the club. I told him I didn't care to work at the club and I was forced to go up there and I didn't think that was proper. So, I told my best buddy about that and strangely as it seemed, the next morning my name was called out to report to the Executive Officer. I went to his 00:27:00office, the steward was there and he said, "Davis?" I said, ''Yes, sir." He said, "Did you write this note?" I said, "I Did."

I told him on the note if it cost everyone to suffer, ask and I'll present myself to you. So he said, "What do you mean by this?" I said, "Well, sir." I said, "I explained to the steward that I didn't care for the extra work and he insisted that I go up. So at taps, I knew I had to get up early in the morning and started working in the galley so I just come up and went to bed." So, the Executive Officer asked the steward, "Did you tell him he had to work up there?" He said, "Yes, sir." He said, "Well, I'm telling you, he didn't have to work up there." He said, "But Davis, you didn't handle this the proper way." And, so that settled that part but within the next two days I was shipped out. They shipped me to the Pacific, to Pearl Harbor.

HUNTLEY: You were determined to be a troublemaker?

DAVIS: Well, I would say I was determined to be my own person.

HUNTLEY: I'm sorry. They determined that you were a troublemaker?

DAVIS: That's exactly right. And, so they shipped me out. I went to Pearl Harbor and stayed there for about 7 or 8 months and had to come back to the same place. I was there about two weeks and they shipped me over to Europe. So I served in both theaters of war. After I came back from Europe but they were still fighting in Japan. And, so time I got back to Newport they were going to send me back to the southwest Pacific. And so, I told them I refused to go. They settled down and shipped me to Fargo Building in Boston and I stayed there and from there they sent me to New Orleans and I was discharged .

HUNTLEY: So you had made the determination about what you would do and what you 00:29:00would not do?

DAVIS: That's exactly right. I had decided that I was a person. I found out that if I had opportunity I could do anything anyone else could do. Especially in an area that I decided I wanted to go in. I was determined to stand on that and that was my life. I've always been like that.

HUNTLEY: So you mustered out from New Orleans?

DAVIS: That's right.

HUNTLEY: Did you come directly back to Birmingham?

DAVIS: Back to Birmingham and back to the L&N. And, when I get back to the L&N now is the time I'm pressing for this higher job because I've seen Black men in the Navy operate cranes and drive trucks.

HUNTLEY: Are you pressing at that point for the engineer's job?

DAVIS: I wrote a letter to the master mechanic. First I asked for apprentice training as a machinist because I wanted to work up. And, so he called me to his 00:30:00office. He said, "Davis, why you want to be a machinist." He said, "I'll give you a leave of absence to go to Nashville." There was a school in Nashville that taught dentistry. He was going to make a dentist out of me. I told him, I said, "I can't leave Birmingham. I have a family here and I want to be able to work the top job that I'm qualified for." What happened, when I applied for the job as an apprentice machinist, that was under the GI Bill. The government would guarantee me an opportunity but they left it up to me to find somewhere to work as an apprentice. So, they sent me to Tuskegee to take an aptitude test. Tuskegee approved that I was eligible and qualified to be an apprentice machinist and, then I come back to the shop and, when I came back, then that's 00:31:00when the ball started turning in a way that I realized that I had a fight on my hands. They never did. I ended up in court. I was the first person, I'm pretty sure of this. I have a notebook that my daughter put together for me.

Judge Lynn was appointed by President Roosevelt as a District Judge for the Northern District of Alabama, so I filed a discrimination case against the L&N.

HUNTLEY: Was this as a result of not getting the job?

DAVIS: Not getting the position that I was after. And, so we went to court. Now, at that time I'm representing a bunch of men out there.

HUNTLEY: What year is this?

DAVIS: That was in 1946. In my first discrimination case, I knew that the men 00:32:00out there was in the same situation that I was in. I realized that. But, I couldn't afford to ask them to follow me, because I knew I was committed to go all the way. I never did ask anybody to sign a petition or to testify with me or anything of the kind. So, going to court, the company had, there was one friend of mine who was with me in the court, Erskine Pinkens. He's dead now. He was in the court, but what happened, the foreman, Mr. Mulvaney was the foreman at the Round House. That's where the engines were located. And, at that time I was working on the coal shoot, putting coal and water on locomotive engines. Mr. Mulvaney testified in Judge Lynn's court stating that I was "hot headed." In other words, that no one could tell me anything. Well, see, the agreement was 00:33:00that the promotion was based on ability, merit and seniority. They admitted that I had ability and seniority, but I didn't merit the position because I was a "hot head." And, Judge Lynn ruled against me. Had I had that case later, I would have won it.

HUNTLEY: How long did you stay on that particular job?

DAVIS: I stayed at the L&N until 1950. The railroad went on a strike and, at that time, I'm Local Chairman now, and I had filed a suit against the company. In order for them to maintain their integrity, they had to promote every Black man out there. They had to offer all of the laborers promotions to a higher rate 00:34:00of job. And, then, I felt real happy about it because I was responsible for those men getting those top rate jobs, including my father. My daddy didn't accept it, but they had to offer him a car man's job. And, my brother, he was hired as a car man. In fact, he retired as a car man. But, in order for them to defeat me, and they singled me out and said that I didn't merit the job because I was a "hot head" and I knew they couldn't say the same thing about everybody out there, so they had to promote them.

HUNTLEY: You became a union representative?

DAVIS: Yes . I was the Local Chairman. I was in charge of the union at {Inaudible) Shop. Local 1044 was our local. International Brotherhood of Firemen and Oilmen. Being in that position, we had our meetings at the Masonic Temple and I would tell the men that if you do your job, I'll defend your rights. But, 00:35:00if you're caught sleep or if you come to work drunk, or if you're caught stealing, don't ask me to represent you, because I can't defend that. And, I was more or less a good employee because I was encouraging people to be good workers. But the company just couldn't control me. And, just like laborers work, we were cleaning the yard. There was a contract. I kept a copy of the union contract and a New Testament all the time. I read both of them. So, on one occasion, where a car man was cutting a piece of waste material in repairing a box car and, he had a helper with him, which was a Black man. So, what happened , it was reported to me that this helper was picking up scrap. So, I had the 00:36:00privilege of getting off my job to look into any problems in the shop. So, I went up in the area and I talked to the foreman, I said, "Mr. Mulvaney, that's scrap material." He said, "Davis, the car man just cut that and a helper right here, why can't he pick that up and put that in a trash can?" I said, "Because it's laborers work." I said, "That's the agreement." He said, "Davis, you never would make a foreman." What happened, he was trying to condition me to accept a position and that would solve the problem. But, what he didn't understand I didn't want to be a foreman. I wanted to be a machinist. And, so, behind that they began to get after me.

HUNTLEY: How long did you remain after they started getting behind you? You actually lost your job?

DAVIS: Yes, I lost my job. What happened, I was a tractor operator and it was 00:37:00just customary for me to check the oil in a machine before I started. So, I checked the oil in the tractor that morning and found the oil stick absolutely clean. So I put the stick back down to check it and found that crank case was filled with gasoline. If I had started that engine, it was an old Ford some Tractor. If I had started that engine, with the ignition on top and gasoline fumes in the crank case, there's no telling what would have happened. So I didn't make no noise about it. I had the tractor pulled to the machine shop and drained that gasoline out and put oil in and went on about my work.

HUNTLEY: Was that an error that someone committed?

DAVIS: I don't know if somebody was purposely trying to do me any harm. But I 00:38:00never did made any shout of it. I never did say anything about it, but that happened. But, finally, my job was to keep about 300 car men busy with material. I was carrying material to rebuild box cars. So, on one occasion my tractor was broke down. Well, normally speaking, when a tractor was broke down, the guy would go to the shop and stay until his tractor was ready and, then he would go back to work, but I didn't do that, because I knew they were watching me. So I kept my work going by using an idle tractor. And, so they found out that I was determined to work. Mr. Hollingsworth, my immediate foreman called on the

PA system and told me to go to the north end of the shed. So I did. He said, "Davis, we want you to roll wheels."

Now, rolling wheels in the wheel shop was right there in the area. A box car wheel weigh 350 lbs and the axle weight 750 lbs. I had a boil under my arm when I left home that morning, but I didn't lay off work, I came because I got to handle this tractor. But to move that wheel to get that much weight started, you had to exert quite a bit of effort. So, I informed the foreman , I said, "Mr. Hollingsworth, it's very difficult for me to roll wheels." I said, "I came to work because I can handle my tractor, but I got a boil under my arm." He said, "You refuse to work?" I said, "I'm not refusing to work. I'm just telling you I can't roll wheels." He said, "You're going to roll wheels." When he said 'it like that, I said, "Well, if you insist that I roll wheels, I prefer punching out." I had the privilege of hitting the clock any time. So that was the day they were looking for.

So he went to the office and the master mechanic called me to the office and 00:40:00sent me to Dr. McGruder for an examination. I knew my fate was sealed in the envelope. He sealed the envelope and I never did try to look at it. I carried it to Dr. McGruder. He examined my arm and sealed it back and sent me back to the shop. So, when I got back to the master mechanic's office. He said, "You go down and do anything you want to do." I knew I was fired then. So, about 3 or 4 months after that is when the master mechanic came through there, down in the shop and gave me a letter. When he gave me the letter, I put the letter in my back pocket. He said, "Davis, I want you to read that letter."

I said, "I'll read my mail when it's convenient. Right now I'm busy." He was the bossman. He knew that my job was to carry this material back and forth. He said, "If you don't mind, read that one now." I took the letter out of my pocket.

It said, "You are hereby discharged from service to the company effective immediately." He said, "Do you understand the letter." I said, "Yes." He said, "Get off the company's premises the quickest way you know how to get off." Now 00:41:00that was a change in my life at that point. The only money I had in the world was less than $10.00 and that's what I had on the books. But, I was obedient to him. I knew all he wanted me to tell him, I needed my job, which I did. But, I walked across that train yard, got off his premises and went home and it took me three years to win that job back.

HUNTLEY: What did you do in the meantime?

DAVIS: In the meantime, the first thing, I was the first black person to serve as a mechanic on new cars. I went to school on the GI Bill to be a mechanic and also attended General Motors Institute in Flint, Michigan. So, I went to J. Truitt Payne. I asked him did he service his used cars. He said, "No, we send that work out." I was dressed in a blue suede suit, white shirt, blue tie, 00:42:00shined shoes. I asked him, I said, "Well, if you have equipment, I could service those cars for you, make a job for myself and save you some money." He said, "Fellow, I been on this corner 21 years, it wouldn't do for me for a car to go a block and stop running. I said, "Mr. Payne, if you have the equipment, I can tune a car better than anybody in town or just as good." He said, "Come back in two weeks." In two weeks I was right there again. At that time, I didn't even own a car. He said, "I been thinking about you. I have an opening in the new car department," and asked if I had my tools. I said, "I have my tools." He said, "I'm going to hire you over there." He said, "Now you know how things are here." He said, "You'll be working for a white fellow. If he call you a wrong name, it's one or two things you could do. You can tell me about it or you can pick up 00:43:00a hammer and knock the hell out of him." I said, "Well, if you hire me, I won't make any problems for you." So, he hired me and I worked for him about 3 or 4 years. Then, I left there and started teaching school. I worked at the post office after leaving J.Truitt Payne. I worked at the post office about a year.

HUNTLEY: Did you ever have any difficulties at J. Truitt Payne?

DAVIS: I did. The gentleman that I was working with at first, he and I worked like two peas in a pod. His name was George. He found out that I knew mechanics and I didn't bother him. He had his stall and I had mine. We were preparing new cars for the show room. When they come off the truck, we had to examine those cars to check them for rattles, noises and put the floor mats, radios and heaters, just any kind of minor work to be done. So, after working with George 00:44:00for a period of time, I never did have problem. So, finally, he became ill and after he was off for about 3 or 4 days, I saw the management and Mr. George had been very nice to me. We had worked together. I felt committed if I could do anything to help him, I would do that. So I asked the management did they have provisions for a man if he was sick, would they pay his salary. He said, "No, Davis, we don't do that. Why you ask?" I said, "Mr. George is off sick. If you agree to pay him while he's off, I'll work whatever time is necessary to keep these cars moving for the sales department." He said, "It's mighty nice of you, so I checked with Mr. Payne and find out." So, later on that evening he came out and told me, "Davis, we've agreed to pay Mr. George's salary, but you need some help over here."

Now, I kept those cars moving. So finally George came back and he told me, he said, "Davis, you know they paid me." I never did tell him that I was 00:45:00responsible for that. So finally , he asked that we go to Florida. He said, "I can get you a job in Florida, making more money than you're making here." I said,

"Mr. George, I can't leave Birmingham". He said, "Well, I'm leaving, I'm

quitting." So finally, he quit. And, they hired another fellow. This fellow came in that morning with white trousers and a white shirt and a cup of coffee in his hand. He walked in this area. So, I was working on a car when he came in. And, I finished my car and road test my car and he came back. The minute I came back he said, "Davis, you finish this job here." That was one he was working on. I did that, because I thought maybe it was something that he had to do. So I found out his game, that he was wanting me to do all the work. So, I began to slow down on my job until he finished his. A doctor purchased two Chryslers. It was a 00:46:00Chrysler 300. That was one that had two four-barrel carburetors. It was a powerful engine, so I had tuned it up and was test driving it. And, so, when I came back, I stayed gone about 15-20 minutes this guy was standing in the alley there at J. Truitt Payne's shop and he cursed me and said, "Where have you been?" I jumped out that car and told him exactly what I wanted to tell him. And told him, "Don't ever ask me where I been anymore."

HUNTLEY: What did you tell him?

DAVIS: I told him, "None of your damn business." But (Inaudible) have come back and never said a word. But I knew that he didn't know what he was doing. When I would put a radio or heater in a car, in the box where the radio was a template 00:47:00that would let you know where to drill a hole to put the antenna. He didn't know what that was in there for. And, spotlights, you had a template to tell you where the holes had to be drilled. So, I would always get the (Inaudible) and get my round spot there and take my punch and strike and, then drill my hole and it was the right place. But, he never did do that. So an order came in for a spotlight to be on a car and it was another car that had a heater and a radio, which was more difficult. But I knew that he could handle the spotlight, because he could take that punch and kind of guess about where to put it. And, he struck that car and started his drill to moving and I'm busy putting a radio and heater in this car that I was working on. And, so, finally he asked me, he said, "Davis, would you come over here and see where this drill." He had been drilling a long time.

When I walked over and he started to drill, the drill came straight through the 00:48:00dash. And I said, "The drill has come through the dash." So, he knew he had messed this car up. So I went back to my job and later on that evening management came over and said, "Davis, who that messed up this dash?" I pointed to the fellow. He said, "Davis, why did you take that job?" I said, "I took the hardest job." I said, "Putting a heater in, I could think he could do that, and putting a radio in a car, I did both of them and I felt that he could do a simple job putting the spot light on." He said, "Davis be more careful next time." When he said that, I knew then it was my time to go. So in a few days I gave Jack Payne a five days notice that I would resign. So, after that I told them that, he came to me and said, "Davis, we can't let you go. What's the problem?" I said, "Mr. Payne, I promised you I wouldn't create a problem for you." I said, "I see a problem surfacing." He said, "Well, if you talking about 00:49:00this fellow," (I forgot his name).

He said, "Today is his last day." I said, "He needs a job just like I need one." And so, I quit and I started doing mechanic work around my home. And, finally an option came open. Mr. Ephraim taught me auto mechanics and he said that there was an opening for a mechanic instructor at Dunbar. So, I called the principal to see about the job and maybe I'll might be able to get it. So, I called Mr. Abrams, he was the principal of Dunbar High School at the time and he asked me to come out there. I went out there. I had also worked on Ms. Nation's car and she was crazy about me. Do you know Ms. Nation?

HUNTLEY: Yes.

DAVIS: Well, she was quite a woman. At any rate, I had worked on her car. She had a clutch that went bad on her and I fixed her car. So, from then on, I was her mechanic. So, when I got to Dunbar High School and Mr. Abrams asked me what kind of work I had done. So, I started talking about the work I did with Payne. And, so, somehow Ms. Nation came up. He said, "You know Ms.

Nation?" I said, "Yes, sir." He said, "Will Ms. Nation recommend you?" I said, "I'm certain she would." He said, "If you know Ms. Nation, you're alright." So he, in turn, told the superintendent that he would accept me. So the superintendent had me to come in his office. He said, "Mr. Davis, if we hire you would you move to Bessemer?" I said, "No, sir." He said, "Well, if you live in Birmingham, that's quite a ways." I said, "But, I live in Birmingham." He said, "Well, we'll let you know." So about five o'clock that evening he called me and told me if I wanted the job, it was mine. And so I started at that school.

But it was because of a recommendation from Ms. Nation and, also a high recommendation from (Inaudible) Payne.

HUNTLEY: How long did you teach school?

DAVIS: Thirty years. Now, at that time I had no interest in teaching. I had no college training. At that time I realized that they didn't care who taught black children. But, my interest and love for children was such that I was proud to have the job and I made a difference. I'm certain I did because I just met some of my former students and we plan to have a reunion of all the boys I've taught over those 30 years. So I ran into a serious problem out there.

HUNTLEY: You had a problem between a Black man and a White man?

DAVIS: That's right.

HUNTLEY: Can you tell me about that?

DAVIS: Well, Mr. Walter Branch was my principal at this time. Mr. Abrams had passed. They had built Abrams High School and I was one of the first teachers that went in that area in that school. Mr. Abrams really was the first Black man I had ever worked under as my boss, and I was proud of that. I respected that and honored him for it. After Mr. Abrams passed, Mr. Branch was the first principal of Abrams High School.

HUNTLEY: He was a Black man?

DAVIS: Walter Branch was a Black man. So, I was also the school's photographer.

Mr. Branch instructed me at 12:00 get the school's camera, go out on the campus and take pictures of the football team. We had won the championship that year. I was one of the first persons to photograph a football game with a 16mm camera. I 00:53:00did a lot of work even for Miles College. When I came back in my classroom, about three minutes after lunch period, which was 12:00 o'clock, Mr. Branch was my principal, and he knew my lunch period was over at 12:00. But, I didn't think about that. He's my boss. He told me to take the pictures. When I walked in the classroom about 3 or 4 minutes after 12:00, Mr. S. C. Porch was my immediate supervisor and the assistant superintendent was in my class with their hats on.

When I walked into the classroom, Mr. Porch said, "Davis, where in the hell have you been?" I knew he had the right to ask me where I had been, but not in that manner. I said, "Mr. Porch, I've been out getting pictures for the football team 00:54:00as I was instructed by the principal." He said, "I believe (Inaudible) . So I'm close to him now. I said, "It's a simple matter for me to stay in the shop. You go up and tell Mr. Branch you want me to stay in the shop. Surely, if he tells me to be somewhere else the next time you come, you won't find me." At that time he put his hands on my collar. He said, "I mean for you to stay in the shop." I never moved my hand from my side. I looked him in his face and my class was quiet. No kind of noise. I said, "Man, take your filthy hands off of me." I said, "Take your hands off of me right now, do you understand that?" He was not ready for that. He had dropped his hands and started shaking all over.

HUNTLEY: This is a White man?

DAVIS: And, when he started to trembling all over the assistant superintendent walked over to him and said, (Inaudible). By then I had walked out. But this is what opened my eyes to if we have a prize, this would open my eyes to it. I go 00:55:00into Mr. Branch's office just to relate to him what happened, not to ask him for any assistance. I said, "Mr. Branch I was doing what you told me to do. Mr. Porch just handed my collar. I don't play like that." Walter Branch looked at me like I'm looking at you and walked in his office and closed the door and never said a word to me about that from then or now. Then, I realized what a bad situation we as Black people were in, when our school officials couldn't defend their own words, And, from that I became interested in politics. It didn't hurt me what I was telling him. What I was concerned about, at least he could have said, "Well, I'll straighten this out." He never said a word. From then, I started writing editorials. I have my first editorial I wrote for The Birmingham 00:56:00News. Later on, Mr. Branch called me one morning and wanted to know, "Davis, what about all this editorial writing?" I said, "What about it?" He said, "Davis, you know what I'm talking about." He said, "Don't say I didn't tell you." He was trying to tell me not to write. But, I continued to write. And, finally in 1970, the Bessemer Board of Education fired me and I won that back and retired.

HUNTLEY: So you won the case after three years with L&N?

DAVIS: That's right.

HUNTLEY: Did you get your job back?

DAVIS: I got the job back and was paid for lost time at the L&N.

HUNTLEY: But, did you go back to the L&N?

DAVIS: No, no. I was teaching school then. But at the time when I won that job back, it was during the school vacation and I could work at the shop. At that 00:57:00time they had cut a lot of jobs off. So, I was working vacation vacancies, but later a regular job came open and I had to resign from the L&N so I could finish my work duties with the Bessemer Board.

HUNTLEY: So, all of the time you are still living in Collegeville?

DAVIS: Yes.

HUNTLEY: And, we know that this is through the 40s, 50s and in 1956, of course, something very significant happened in Birmingham with the NAACP being outlawed from operating in the State of Alabama. The Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights was organized.

DAVIS: That's right.

HUNTLEY: Were you there?

DAVIS: I was there. Rev. Shuttlesworth was my pastor. He was the one that set the motion in Birmingham as to the struggle. In other words, he was the engineer behind that.

HUNTLEY: What do you remember about those first days of the Movement?

DAVIS: Well, one thing, as you stated the NAACP was outlawed by the state. That 00:58:00was, in my opinion, a bad move on the part of Governor Wallace to take that position..

HUNTLEY: It wasn't Wallace, but Governor Patterson.

DAVIS: Okay. For them to outlaw the NAACP, in my opinion was a bad move, however, if they had just put some plugs in their ear to listen to what Black people were saying and, then react like they (Inaudible). But they took a negative attitude. Rev. Shuttlesworth was just a determined person to the point that he just had nerve. When I was working with L&N, Mr. Wells, Rev. Shuttlesworth's uncle, had told me at the time Rev. Shuttlesworth was in Selma 00:59:00at the First Baptist Church in Selma and wanted to come to Birmingham. So, our pastor, Rev. Laster had died. Our church was vacant. And, being a member of the church, we had the privilege to ask the chairman of the pulpit committee to invite various ministers in. So, I was the one that put Rev. Shuttlesworth's name in to come to our church.

HUNTLEY: So you were instrumental in Shuttlesworth even coming to Birmingham?

DAVIS: That's right.

HUNTLEY: What was your initial duties with the Movement? Were you one of the chartermembers of the Alabama Christian Movement? Did you join immediately? How did you get involved?

DAVIS: Well, I didn't actually get involved in the Movement until my church was 01:00:00bombed. When the church was bombed the first time, that activated a whole lot of people . We became seriously concerned.

HUNTLEY: I believe it was December of 1956?

DAVIS: That's exactly right. When they bombed that church the first time, we were cleaning the church up on a Saturday for Sunday morning church services. My grandmother was living with us at that time. My dad had brought her to Birmingham. She was well into her 80's at that time. {Inaudible) Funderburg was the senior person. Charlie Watson was the chairman of the deacon board, and a senior person. He was the treasurer of the church a dedicated follower of Rev. Shuttlesworth. When I saw those senior people come into the Sunday School after the bombing, I knew something important had took place, because they were 01:01:00supposed to have afraid to get involved. Knowing the nature of black people they weren't supposed to get involved, and, I do believe from the bottom of my heart, that those that were planting those bombs, really wasn't trying to hurt anyone. I think they were trying to terrorize and get us scattered. But they were unsuccessful.

HUNTLEY: So you are saying it had just the opposite effect?

DAVIS: Yes. In other words, it pulled people together. Very similar to the situation in Montgomery as far as the bus boycott in Montgomery. I guess people had gotten to the point that they was tired, but that was a move that pulled people together and, then, we started moving. Every Monday night when we would have a Movement meeting, they would announce on Sunday where they would have the meeting on the next night, you had to be there early to get a seat.

HUNTLEY: Did you attend those?

DAVIS: Oh, yes.

HUNTLEY: How would you describe a mass meeting?

DAVIS: Well, the meetings we had were good. Each night they had a speaker and 01:02:00they had good song services and it was crowded, and, then Rev. Shuttlesworth would have information that he would share as to what was happening, the progress of the Movement. It was just something that kept you occupied.

HUNTLEY: I know you served as a guard?

DAVIS: That's right, I served as a guard at my church. My church is on 29th Avenue and 33rd Street. It was a dirt road then. Julius Clark's father and I was on duty that night from 12:00 to 6:00. We had rifles that was loaded and was instructed that if we had to use a gun, to fire and leave. But, that particular night about 3:00 or 4:00 o'clock in the morning, I heard a car speeding around 01:03:0034th Street headed toward the church. I knew whoever was driving that car didn't know the area because of the steep curve. And, so, we alerted ourselves. When the car went across and found he was going into a dead end, he backed up and, then went down 29th. At that time Rev. Clark and myself walked out and we saw this car about three blocks down 29th. He was headed this way, headed west and another car was headed east. They stopped side by side, just like this. After a while the car headed to the church, driving slowly. That was a police officer. Now, that's as close as I could get that a policeman was involved.

HUNTLEY: Was it a police car?

DAVIS: Yes, a police car. They came driving slow and shined their lights all around to see who was around. I saw that with my eyes, right in the middle of the street.

HUNTLEY: Did anything happen that night?

DAVIS: No, no. Nothing happened that night. But they were intending for something to happen because you could tell the car was up to something and whoever was driving the car wasn't familiar with the area. And, also, I helped Stone Johnson, we also protected and guarded Arthur Shores home on Center Street.

HUNTLEY: Was there any time that you were Attorney Shores' home that any suspicious activity took place?

DAVIS: Well, I wasn't on duty that particular night, but I think Stone might have been there. But someone was hurt one night. Some shots were fired.

HUNTLEY: By you or someone else?

DAVIS: Fired by us. And, I'm pretty sure somebody was wounded but you never hear anything about it.

HUNTLEY: Into a car?

DAVIS: In a car.

HUNTLEY: What happened? What precipitated the incident?

DAVIS: Well, they came by as if they were going to throw something of the car and shots started firing. And, I think it was probably in the paper, but at any rate, someone was hurt that night, but it was never known to me.

HUNTLEY: What was the relationship between you and other members of your church and your family as a result of your activities in the Movement?

DAVIS: Well, my family supported what I was doing. I mean, I never had any complaints from my wife. My children were real small at that time. When I had duty at the church or any guard duty, I just took that responsibility . And got up to go to work the next morning. In my church, I was a Sunday School teacher 01:06:00at that time.

HUNTLEY: So, people simply accepted you as being one of those individuals that would really sacrifice yourself?

DAVIS: Right. In other words, it was not all the members of the church were really supportive. I can't even think of the names that weren't, but, however, I know that all of them wasn't, just like all of the churches in Birmingham really wasn't supporting Dr. King nor Rev. Shuttlesworth. Some of the pastors in Birmingham didn't support them.

HUNTLEY: What about your brothers and sisters, were they active in the Movement?

DAVIS: My brother was. My sisters weren't.

HUNTLEY: As you look back on the Movement and if you had the ability, what would you change about the Movement?

DAVIS: To be frank about it, then, as now, I felt economic rights should have been the focus, rather than social. The sit-ins and the demonstrations, of course there were clerk's jobs, but there wasn't any emphasis put on economics. The Movement was more or less focused around social equality. As I look back then, if we had put heavy emphasis on economics, I don't think the system would have been prepared to defend an economic move as they were a social move. The first thing they were hollering that Black men wanted White women. And, if they went after jobs, they couldn't have said that. So, I even tried to get that 01:08:00opened into the Movement but I didn't have any success there.

HUNTLEY: You were not successful in changing the focus?

DAVIS: No. I didn't have enough wit to change the focus, but that was my interest then and it made sense then and it make sense now.

HUNTLEY: Did you take part in any of the demonstrations?

DAVIS: In Bessemer, I did. I was active in Bessemer but in Birmingham my working in the Bessemer school system, I just couldn't get to Birmingham in time to be a part. I walked the streets in Bessemer

HUNTLEY: Were you ever arrested?

DAVIS: No. I never was arrested.

HUNTLEY: Just in retrospect, as you look back on the Movement and you talk about the social aspect versus the economic aspect, do you see anything that happened 01:09:00today that would lead in that direction that you would like to see go into?

DAVIS: Well, one thing I see negative that from an economic standpoint, we were thrown welfare. I saw a number of young ladies in Bessemer, and I never witnessed a White girl being pregnant in the school system in Bessemer while I was there for thirty years. But, I've seen as many as 3, 4 and 5 Black girls pregnant in one classroom. I heard from the little girls talking that if they are pregnant, they could get a check if they don't identify a father. So, to my way of looking at that, the welfare benefits was essential to these people's 01:10:00livelihood and they accepted as being that, and those handouts really retarded our progress and we're still locked into that now. Now, they are fixing to take the welfare away from us, which it wasn't right in the beginning. It wasn't designed to help us. I wrote an editorial once asking why not share the administrative costs of welfare rather than the little measly checks that the people were getting, and you would find that a lot people living in Mountain Brook was on welfare, more so than people in Collegeville. But that was a pitfall for us and I think we are still locked into that right now. We are going to have walk through. The struggle is coming all over again. One advantage I see in the situation right now it's going to bring us back together, and, then we 01:11:00can plot our course from this point on. We are hurting now, far more than we were before the struggle.

HUNTLEY: You attended the Million Man March, what did that mean to you?

DAVIS: The Million Man March, when I arrived in Washington that morning about 8:30 a.m., I was on Amtrak , I saw all these black brothers moving toward that mall and in my heart I said, "What is this?" Right now, if I make a move, I might shed tears. Because I went up there basically because I felt there was a need to come together. I had no idea that a million plus men would show up. But, I believe that those men were there because they accept part of the problem and they wanted to be part of the solution. I think it's a force and I would say this, a lot of people have reasons not to admire or support Minister Farrakhan. 01:12:00But, I contend that the minister made that call, but God made the response. It was no way one man could have handled that and get that kind of response on his on and I feel as if something big is coming out of this. We are going to have some more suffering and hard days for some people. But, the results of what the system is moving now, they are going to put us back together, which is something they don't really want, because we are going to come together out of need as we once were.

HUNTLEY: Mr. Davis, it's really been great having you today. It's obvious that we have a lot more to talk about. What I'd like to do is to really get you back and talk some more because that period between 1960 and the 1990s you were very active and you became county commissioner and we want to talk about that as well. So, I want to thank you for coming today and we'll try to do this again.

DAVIS: Okay. The pleasure is mine.