Ruth Barefield-Pendleton Interviewed on March 9, 1995

HUNTLEY: I am Dr. Horace Huntley. This is an interview with Mrs. Ruth Barefield- Pendleton from the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute's Oral History Project. We are at Miles College, March 9, 1995. Good afternoon, Mrs. Pendleton.

B-PENDLETON: Good afternoon, Dr. Huntley.

HUNTLEY: Thank you very much for coming out...taking time out of your busy schedule today to sit and talk with us about the Civil Rights Movement. Before we get into asking questions about the Movement itself, I'd like to get a little background. Are you an Alabamian?

B-PENDLETON: No, I'm not. I come from Pascagoula, Mississippi.

HUNTLEY: Pascagoula, Mississippi? Okay.

B-PENDLETON: A foreigner to the west.

HUNTLEY: Well, Pascagoula, that's down on the coast, is that right?

B-PENDLETON: That's right. It's the beginning of the Mississippi gulf coast.

HUNTLEY: Oh, I see. Then, were your parents from Mississippi?

B-PENDLETON: No, my parents come from Monroe County, Alabama from the community of Chrysler, Alabama which is no longer in existence. But, at an early age, they left and came to Pascagoula when Pascagoula was known as Scranton, Mississippi and that was back in early 1919.

HUNTLEY: I see.

B-PENDLETON: So, they really...well my mother is still living at 99 years, my father died two years ago at 97 and they were married for 76 years.

HUNTLEY: So, they in fact were Mississippians?

B-PENDLETON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Well, how many brothers and sisters do you have?

B-PENDLETON: I have two brothers and two sisters.

HUNTLEY: Are they still in Mississippi?

B-PENDLETON: No, one brother is in Gadsden, Alabama, another brother is in Atlanta, Georgia and a sister is in Mobile, Alabama and a sister is in Philadelphia, Mississippi.

HUNTLEY: So, you guys are just scattered all over the country?

B-PENDLETON: Scattered, but not too far, though.

HUNTLEY: So, how do you fit in there? Were you the second...

B-PENDLETON: I'm the youngest of the five.

HUNTLEY: So, you were the spoiled one of the family?

B-PENDLETON: No, the outspoken one. The youngest can always get away with more than the others.

HUNTLEY: Absolutely. Tell me about the education of your parents, your mother and your father.

B-PENDLETON: Well, my father's formal education went to the 7th grade. He used to like to say he had his trunk packed for Mr. Washington's school in Tuskeegee. 00:03:00But his formal education really stopped at the 7th grade when his mother died shortly...she didn't want him to go to Tuskeegee because she said that she had heard that the White men were killing the Coloreds who were trying to get an education. We were Colored back then.

HUNTLEY: Right.

B-PENDLETON: So, he took his young bride and he left after his mother died and went to Pascagoula.

HUNTLEY: I see.

B-PENDLETON: Now my mother says that her education really began when her children began school. She still studies, even to this day at 99, when her mail comes, she reads it first.

HUNTLEY: She reads her own mail, that's great, great. What about occupations?

B-PENDLETON: My father, in the early years was a truck driver for a lumber company and then he began to work for the post office in a janitorial position 00:04:00and he worked up to become a mail carrier. He picked up mail from sub-stations and drove them to the main post office. My mother was always a housewife.

HUNTLEY: And, this is Mississippi, early 19th century, I mean 20th century?

B-PENDLETON: This is early, well around 1919-1920.

HUNTLEY: Mid 20s?

B-PENDLETON: Now, he did not start working for the post office until I was in high school, but before then his occupation was a truck driver.

HUNTLEY: Tell me a little about your community, the community that you grew up in.

B-PENDLETON: Well, Pascagoula is a seaport town. It was really founded by the Jesuit priests. It's a catholic town, however, we were one of the few protestant families in the community and before the shipyard came there, Ingalls Shipyard, 00:05:00all Whites and Blacks knew each other. But then with the coming of the shipyard you had a lot of transients...you know a lot of people coming in, so it has grown to be the third largest city in Mississippi. Jackson, Meridian and then Pascagoula.

HUNTLEY: What about the racial make-up?

B-PENDLETON: Well, I have not lived there since I left to go to college, but the racial climate seems to be improving. You see, the coastal part of Mississippi was never as rigid in its well, the Delta, you know.

HUNTLEY: The Delta is the Black belt area?

B-PENDLETON: The Delta is the Black belt area and anywhere where Blacks 00:06:00outnumbered Whites, the climate is not good. Well down on the Mississippi gulf coast it was a little better. And then, the occupations...you know, it was better economically also, because of the shipyard.

HUNTLEY: So the shipyard was really where most people worked?

B-PENDLETON: Where most people worked and still do. And then, of course, you have a cannery out on Cat Island. You've got these businesses that sprang up from the shipyard. You have a fertilizer factory over on another island and of course, the fertilizer is made from poagy fish..

HUNTLEY: Interesting.

B-PENDLETON: And, of course, now the industry is the lott...uh gambling.

HUNTLEY: Right, absolutely.

B-PENDLETON: You know, down in that area.

HUNTLEY: Tell me, after you finished high school, when you went off to college, 00:07:00where did you go to college?

B-PENDLETON: I went to Tougaloo College, Tougaloo, Mississippi. And this is on the other side of Jackson. Now Jackson's suburbs has grown so much that it reaches the suburbs of Toogaloo. Now Tougaloo is just a whistle stop. The only thing there is the campus and a few families that live outside of the community.

HUNTLEY: Well, tell me, how was the transition from Pascagoula to Tougaloo?

B-PENDLETON: Well, it wasn't hard. Tougaloo is a private, liberal arts school. It is the sister school to Talladega and to Fisk. It was founded by the American Missionary Association They came south, set up schools and churches for the children of the new freed Black man. Well, when I went to college, the faculty 00:08:00was predominately White. The president was White, so my association with Whites, that was the beginning...there at Tougaloo. And, of course, when I moved to Alabama, the first thing I did was to look for a congregational church. You see, Tougaloo is a congregational school.

HUNTLEY: Right.

B-PENDLETON: When I went to the congregational church, I met Rev. Harold Long who was the pastor there...who was also very involved in the civil rights struggles.

HUNTLEY: Right. Before we get to Birmingham, though, let me just ask you about your Mississippi experiences. Prior to going to Tougaloo, you lived in a Black community, I assume?

B-PENDLETON: I lived in a Black community. The home house is still there. My mother and father ran the household. As a matter of fact, it's the house that I 00:09:00was born in and we still live in the family house.

HUNTLEY: Is that where your mother still lives?

B-PENDLETON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Oh, that's interesting. Well, when you left and went off to Tougaloo, what had you decided to do with your life?

B-PENDLETON: Well, at that time, Black people...women in particular you either were going to be a teacher, or a nurse. I didn't want to be either of those things. Of course, I ended up being a teacher and uh, my father who was not formally educated beyond the 7th grade, always said that "you need to stand for something, stand up for something and live well, so someone will stand up for you." And, of course, he said Tougaloo would be the best school to go to. He 00:10:00first was talking about Mr. Washington's school, Tuskeegee, but my principal influenced me a lot to go to Tougaloo. And, I loved it.

HUNTLEY: What was your major?

B-PENDLETON: My major? English...a minor in history, a minor in library science.

HUNTLEY: Then, after Tougaloo, what did you do?

B-PENDLETON: I married. I married my present husband.

HUNTLEY: Did you meet him there in school?

B-PENDLETON: No, he came to my hometown to practice medicine and he was the first Black doctor to come into Pascagoula.and I came home from college one summer and I met him.

HUNTLEY: Then after you finished at Tougaloo, did you go back then to Pascagoula?

B-PENDLETON: Yes. My husband went to Korea. I was in Pascagoula while he was in Korea for 10 months and then, when he came back from Korea, we went to Fort Sill, Oklahoma.

HUNTLEY: Okay. How long then was he in the military?

B-PENDLETON: He was in the military until I asked him to retire....uh... when the Korean campaign started, they needed physicians. They gave him one month, to close his office and another week he was in California and in three weeks he was on the front lines at an aid station in North Korea, not North Korea, South Korea. He was there when the North Koreans came across the Border or came down. And, then when he came back to the states, he came later to Fort Sill, Oklahoma and that's where I joined him.

HUNTLEY: Well, while he was in Korea and you were in Pascagoula...

B-PENDLETON: I was in Pascagoula and I taught school at Moss Point, Mississippi.

HUNTLEY: Moss Point.

B-PENDLETON: You know that name.

HUNTLEY: Yes, absolutely.

B-PENDLETON: Well, Moss Point is to Pascagoula like Mountain Brook is to Birmingham. It's about three miles.

HUNTLEY: Moss Point, is that not an all Black town?

B-PENDLETON: Oh no, no, it's not an all Black town.

HUNTLEY: But, it was a rather well off...

B-PENDLETON: They have a Black mayor now.

HUNTLEY: Okay. Well, is that why you came to Birmingham?

B-PENDLETON: No, no. When my husband came back from Korea, when he got out of the army at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, he came to Mobile, Alabama to practice medicine. We stayed there about a year. Five physicians came in at one time, three were local boys and two were outside of Mobile. I call it our starvation period. So, after a year, we moved to Bessemer, Alabama and his office is still in Roosevelt City. That's where I lived when we first came here. That was in 1953.

HUNTLEY: Did you teach in Mobile or in Oklahoma?

B-PENDLETON: No, no I, I was busy having babies. I had two.

HUNTLEY: So, then you, when you then came to Birmingham in '53, did you start teaching at that time?

B-PENDLETON: I started teaching the next school session and that's when I discovered that you had to have Alabama history before you could teach in the public school system. I taught at Wenonah High School, but I came to Miles College to get Alabama history, and I was out there a summer, and that's where I met, uh, a lot of good people who influenced me. Myrtle Blissett, who is no longer here and at that time, Dr. Bell was the president and then, of course, I 00:14:00met Dr. Williams President after him. But, the person who most influenced my life was Dr. Lucius Pitts. I met Dr. Lucius Pitts and, uh, I'm getting ahead of myself, but that's how I happened to get to Miles College.

HUNTLEY: Okay, so you taught at Wenonah until...?

B-PENDLETON: I taught at Wenonah until my children became school age and my husband and I both agreed that that's a full-time job, to be at home.

HUNTLEY: Were you living in Roosevelt at the time?

B-PENDLETON: I was living in Roosevelt City.

HUNTLEY: It appears that we....

B-PENDLETON: I moved to Birmingham in 1958. That's when I retired from teaching.

HUNTLEY: Okay.

B-PENDLETON: I haven't taught since 1958.

HUNTLEY: Is that right. We seemed to have crossed paths at Wenonah. That was my first year of Wenonah and well my first year was '57 so, '57 to '58 school year 00:15:00was my first year, and evidently, that was your last year.

B-PENDLETON: That's right.

HUNTLEY: So, we did cross paths. We both had '58s in mind because we're from minorities. After Wenonah, then what, what did you do?

B-PENDLETON: Well, that's when I became active in the community. We moved from Roosevelt City to Birmingham where I live now. It's the area called College Hills in Smithfield, and at that time they were calling it "Dynamite Hill,". I joined the congregational church there. My pastor was very active in the Movement. I met my close and dear friend Deenie Drew, who lives around the corner from me. The two of us... and there's another friend, Mrs. Montgomery, 00:16:00Althea Montgomery. We would go out to Miles college and assist Mr. Jonathan McPherson who was working with the students at Miles. At that time the students didn't have adequate transportation. There were not many students with cars. So, what we did, we would provide transportation for them. They, would blanket the community during the selective buying campaign. We took the students to all of the communities in the Jefferson County area.

HUNTLEY: Let me ask you, let me back you up just a bit and ask you about getting involved...your initial...in 1958, when you moved to College Hills...the Movement. The Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights was organized in 1956 00:17:00and they started with mass meetings at that time, did you attend any of those meetings?

B-PENDLETON: I went to mass meetings almost nightly. Uh, at that time, I had full time help and I had a lot of baby sitters, so during mass meetings.I never joined the Alabama Christian Movement, but every time Fred Shuttlesworth marched, I marched. Uh, they used to joke with me and say "Ruth, you got on your walking shoes?" And, it was there where I met people like Georgia Price and, and Lola Hendricks. Deenie would pick me up, or I would pick her up and we would go to the mass meetings.

HUNTLEY: There were several events that took place between the establishment of the Movement, the Alabama Christian Movement in '56 and 1963. The first issue 00:18:00that the Movement dealt with was the issue of hiring of Black police. One of the key issues, of course was the integration of schools. In '57 when Rev. Shuttlesworth and his wife were attacked...

B-PENDLETON: I remember that. No, in '57 I was teaching. Now you remember, if you were a school teacher, you could not even be a card carrying member of the NAACP.

HUNTLEY: Why couldn't you be a card carrying member of the NAACP?

B-PENDLETON: Well, they had outlawed the NAACP here in Alabama, and I had joined the NAACP in Mobile, Alabama so I did not have to come to join, I was already a member. And someone told me, "Ruth, you shouldn't carry that card around." But, I did. I'm getting off the subject now.

HUNTLEY: No, that's a good piece of the story, because in '57 if you had a card, 00:19:00a NAACP card in your pocket and you were...

B-PENDLETON: You were subject to be fired from your job.

HUNTLEY: Was that, was that simply something that was understood or did someone tell you that?

B-PENDLETON: This is what...well, you know, if you taught, you would hear rumors and this is what was said. That you don't carry your NAACP card around with you and I said "why?" and of course, they said, "well, Ruth, you know, they outlawed it." Well anyway. Now another organization, the Alabama Council on Human Relations, met regularly at my church, the First Congregational Church.

HUNTLEY: Now that's an inter-racial ....

B-PENDLETON: That's an inter-racial group. And, I joined that, went to several of the meetings. I can recall coming outside of the church and the policemen 00:20:00would be walking around the parking lot, writing down the tag numbers of the car. And that was so they could know up who was inside the church. What White people were there and these people were automatically branded communists. That is where I met Eileen Walbert.

HUNTLEY: The Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights meetings were actually attended by police officers.

B-PENDLETON: Oh yes, there would be plain clothesmen, they would come on the grounds like they would at the mass meetings.

HUNTLEY: Did they do the same thing at the meetings at your congregational church?

B-PENDLETON: I never knew if any of them came inside the church. They would be outside, in the parking lot.

HUNTLEY: Simply..taking...

B-PENDLETON: Taking the number, the tag number of the cars.

HUNTLEY: How did that affect attendance?

B-PENDLETON: Well, these people had to be very brave because they always had a pretty large number of persons attending. Now, I had just moved up on the hill, didn't have as many baby sitters, and so, of course...I say baby sitters, my children were school age, but I guess the word would be sitters. Didn't have too many of them. But when I lined up some of the sitters when I first moved up there, Angela Davis was one of my sitters. Angela's sister Fania was one of my sitters. Her brother, Bennie was one of my sitters, and of course, Jamie Collins, whose sister, Addie, was killed at the 16th Street bombing, was one of my sitters. So, I had a lot of people I could call on. This was in the early years. We haven't gotten to '63 because Angela was gone by that time.

HUNTLEY: What was the make-up of that organization. The ratio between Blacks and Whites?

B-PENDLETON: There were more Whites than Blacks.

HUNTLEY: Were most of the Black people that were involved, were they your neighbors? Did they live on...in College Hills?

B-PENDLETON: The Drew's and no, some of them came from other parts of the city, I can't think of this lady's name, but I see her face right now.

HUNTLEY: Right. In 1960, was the year that the sit-ins started. Of course, in North Carolina and then they really swept the entire South.

B-PENDLETON: Yes. It started with students.

HUNTLEY: That's right.

B-PENDLETON: That's when I came out...I was working with the Miles students.

HUNTLEY: How did that affect Miles College? Was Miles involved in that at all.

B-PENDLETON: Well, Dr. Lucius Pitts invited Deanie Drew, Althea Montgomery and 00:23:00myself to come out and see if we would could help the students because they did need transportation and we became known as the "den mothers" for Miles College.

HUNTLEY: You mean he asked you to come out to provide...

B-PENDLETON: To come out and see whatever we could do to help. He didn't tell us to get involved, but he directed us to Dr. Jonathan McPherson. I think he's still on the faculty out there, I'm not sure. But anyway, these were the things that Dr. Jonathan McPherson told us they needed. They needed transportation. We would drive out to Miles, pick up students, take them downtown and they would try to sit in at Loveman's, Pizitz, any place that had a lunch counter. Kress, Woolworth's, Britts, those were the five places.

HUNTLEY: So you are suggesting there was concerted effort between the 00:24:00administration and the student body to demonstrate in downtown Birmingham. Dr. Pitts was behind the students 100% and the students of Miles worked diligently. Some were arrested. We would go to court with them and that's when they started calling us "den mothers of Miles". And, of course, bail bond. Dr. Pitts said, "you know we are a methodist school, we don't have any money for bail bonds." But, the children...I don't remember any of the students having to stay overnight in jail. They went to jail. Now this was before SCLC came into the city and then the students to work with the Alabama Christian Movement. All of these things were going on at the same time. And that's when they blanketed the community, asking the citizens to stay away from the stores. This is when the 00:25:00selective buying campaign started.

HUNTLEY: Before we get to the selective buying, because we are talking about '62 then and that becomes a really big issue.

B-PENDLETON: Now I don't remember these dates, now don't you...

HUNTLEY: That's why I'll throw those out to you, but in '61 the Freedom Rides took place.

B-PENDLETON: Oh yeah, I remember when they came through and they were beaten up so terrible. Well, they were stopped in Anniston and then when they got to the bus station here in Birmingham, they were met by people with baseball bats and chains and it was terrible.

HUNTLEY: There were individuals here who actually...I think some of them went to Anniston to pick up some of the riders. Shuttlesworth, of course was called in. He was at the bus station and some of the people went out to his church and out 00:26:00to his home. What do you remember about that particular episode, may be through newspapers or may be through just discussions with individuals who were involved or people that you knew? Are there any recollections that you had about...

B-PENDLETON: No, what I remember most about that, it was how brutal the, uh, the White man was, and all these people were doing, were doing was riding the bus, going through the South. And, uh, they had stopped this bus in Anniston and some of the riders were taken from the bus and beaten and then when they came into Birmingham, I remember reading, and I wasn't involved in this at all, but I do remember reading that there were Blacks and we were not called Blacks then, we 00:27:00were called Negroes. There were Negroes who met them at the station also. And, the Whites were there and there was a great confrontation.

HUNTLEY: Now..

B-PENDLETON: The climate was not good at all. The climate was not good. It was a frightening situation.

HUNTLEY: In '62 then, we get to the Selective Buying Campaign. Can you tell me about the organization of that? How did that materialize?

B-PENDLETON: Well, the students of Miles, uh, made leaflets and we would take them to each community and they would drop packages of leaflets off at the churches in the community. They would also go from door to door, passing out 00:28:00leaflets, urging the people not to shop downtown and I think it was very effective. Not nearly as effective as we wanted it to be, but no one could say they did not know a boycott was going on in Birmingham.

HUNTLEY: And, you couldn't use the term "boycott," right?

B-PENDLETON: No.

HUNTLEY: That was against the law.

B-PENDLETON: Selective Buying Campaign.

HUNTLEY: What initiated the Selective Buying Campaign? Why a Selective Buying Campaign?

B-PENDLETON: Well, there were certain things that the Alabama Christian Movement, and Rev. Shuttlesworth, they had been asking for for the past 6-7 years. And that was the upgrading of the Black people who were already working at the stores, from hiring sales persons, training for the managerial positions. 00:29:00Desegregation of the lunch counters, simple, basic things. Desegregation of the toilets, desegregation of water fountains. These were the things that they were asking for. Nothing that . . .

HUNTLEY: Nothing really revolutionary?

B-PENDLETON: That's right, nothing really revolutionary.

HUNTLEY: The students. . .Miles College. . .was it correct that Miles College actually had a campaign, a fund raising campaign at the time and, I believe they were soliciting funds and the city or someone. . .

B-PENDLETON: They went from door-to-door as they did with the leaflets with cups and, you know, asking for donations. And, of course, I think that was relatively successful.

HUNTLEY: So, then this was really when the Movement, the Alabama Christian Movement and Miles College students...

B-PENDLETON: Started working together, yes.

HUNTLEY: Then, we move into 1963, and of course...

B-PENDLETON: Yeah, that was when the SCLC came into the city at the invitation of Rev. Fred Shuttlesworth of the Alabama Christian Movement. And, of course, the city was going through its changes. You know, we had Mayor and a commissioner form of government at that time. Three commissioners--Bull Conner, Jabo Wagner and Art Haynes was the mayor. Well, we elected Albert Boutwell for mayor and nine council men, council persons now. But anyway, uh, they could not 00:31:00take their seat because, Bull Conner and Art Haynes and Jabo Wagner would not move out.

HUNTLEY: Right.

B-PENDLETON: But anyway, uh, Rev. Shuttlesworth had invited the SCLC to come into the city and before it was known that SCLC was in the city, uh, some of the personnel of the SCLC had been in for two weeks, you know recruiting folk to work. I didn't even know that they were in the city until the uh, the uh, the call went out "come, we need your help," and since I was already out there working with the students, I went down.

HUNTLEY: You got involved...

B-PENDLETON: I got involved with the....

HUNTLEY: Was this the beginning then of the mass meetings that would take place in April and May?

B-PENDLETON: This was, this was the beginning when the SCLC came into the city. 00:32:00I went down when they asked for the citizens to please come, "we need your support." I went down and they wanted the citizens of Birmingham to be involved so that the White city people...citizens could not justifiably say outside agitators. So, they set up this committee. This committee, it was called the Central Committee and I was elected secretary of the Central Committee. Now the Central Committee was made up mostly of ministers because these...

HUNTLEY: Why ministers?

B-PENDLETON: Well, these were persons who did not have to answer to the White man. He did not worry about losing his job and then, of course, the Black 00:33:00ministers could reach more Black people than any other person in the community. So, uh, through the Alabama Christian Movement and SCLC, many Black ministers showed up that day. And, Deenie Drew and I were there. And, I was elected secretary of that committee, and we met in room 30 every morning. Some days, it would be in the afternoon.

HUNTLEY: And, you were at all of those meetings?

B-PENDLETON: Sometimes I could not. It depend...it would depend on how long my, my...the lady that worked for me could stay. She came in the morning at 9:00 and she stayed until 4:00. So, I did not leave until she was there and she did not 00:34:00leave until Denise and Tyree were home from school. Those are my children.

HUNTLEY: Right.

B-PENDLETON: And, by the time she left at 4:00, I was back at home. And then when the mass meetings started, around 6:00, I was gone again. But, between 4:00 and sometimes 6 or 7:00 depending...we did homework and things like that.

HUNTLEY: Oh, so you did take the time to do the homework with the kids and....

B-PENDLETON: Oh, every night, we did homework.

HUNTLEY: And then you'd leave there going to the mass meetings?

B-PENDLETON: Go to the mass meetings.

HUNTLEY: Did your children ever go to the mass meetings?

B-PENDLETON: No, my children never went to the mass meetings. My children went with me to Selma. My children went with me, and with my husband and me to Montgomery and but not here in Birmingham.

HUNTLEY: Not to the mass meetings?

B-PENDLETON: Not to the mass meetings.

HUNTLEY: Can you describe to me what a mass meeting was like?

B-PENDLETON: The mass meeting was a combination of a revival, a political rally, 00:35:00non-partisan that is, and a camp meeting. It was very fiery, you had a lot of singing of freedom songs, spirituals...you had a lot of speech making and you would always find a.The churches would be full, every night. It did not start off that way, but, it grew and it got to the point where you could not get a seat. The churches would be full. They met at different churches. Sixteenth Street Baptist Church, St. Paul which is up the next block from Sixteenth Street, St. James, and Sixth Avenue Baptist. Sixth Avenue Baptist was over where the medical center is now. It was on Sixth Avenue. I think New Pilgrim.

HUNTLEY: On the same corner as Sixteenth Street.

B-PENDLETON: That's right.

HUNTLEY: One on the north side. in fact, I've heard someone say, I think it was Rev. Oliver, he said "Sixteenth Street South."

B-PENDLETON: Sixteenth Street, yes.

HUNTLEY: Sixteenth Street South, that was...

B-PENDLETON: You know Rev. Oliver, he was a member of the Alabama Council on Human Relations, I think that's where I first met him. And, then he became a member of this Central Committee.

HUNTLEY: You participated very fervently during the. this April and May period, you being the

secretary. . .

B-PENDLETON: Yes, but I did other things.

HUNTLEY: Okay.

B-PENDLETON: We made placards. We picked up people at the airports. I ran road blocks. I ran around road blocks. That is, I would pick up demonstrators, Bull Conner would block off the streets, 5th Avenue, 19th Street, 4th Avenue, so we 00:37:00would go around down to 13th Street and go across to 1st Avenue North, put the demonstrators out at 19th Street and they would walk down to Pizitz, to Britts, to you know...so I did more than just write the minutes.

HUNTLEY: So, you were actually in the thick of things?

B-PENDLETON: Yes. And then of course, they made me chairman of the Transportation Committee, so what I did, I asked my friends who I knew were not working during that time, Deenie Drew and I, Althea Montgomery, Ruth Gaillard, Willa Adams...these were ladies who were at home. Also, we asked Rhett Bradford. . . we asked them to come, bring your cars, we need transportation. People were 00:38:00coming in from everywhere and we had to pick them up and get them out.

HUNTLEY: Were you ever arrested?

B-PENDLETON: No, but I had my toothbrush with me and I carry my toothbrush with me to this day. If you look over there in the pocket book, you'll find a toothbrush.

HUNTLEY: You're like the boy scouts, you're prepared.

B-PENDLETON: I was prepared.

HUNTLEY: As you, you were so active, what did your husband say about your activity?

B-PENDLETON: He encouraged me. He was paying for the gasoline for my car. He was paying for the food or materials, for the placards, or whatever. He went to his office every day and then at night, he would come home and he would help patrol our neighborhood. You see, we lived in, well, it was called "Dynamite Hill" at that time and it was also a target for the KKK and the men in the neighborhood would patrol that area because they were planting bombs at Arthur Shores house 00:39:00and the catholic church down there. And he went to Montgomery with us. He went to Selma once and when the march began, from Selma to Montgomery, he was medical officer of the day, that is, he went down one afternoon, manned an aid station all that day and night and came back the next day. He made available, bond money for demonstrators that had been jailed.

HUNTLEY: In Selma, one of the things that broke that Movement was...well not broke the movement, but assisted the Movement was the assistance of teachers. Teachers finally came out. Were there ever efforts here in Birmingham, those of you who had been teachers and had associations with other teachers to get others who were still in the classroom?

B-PENDLETON: Well, if they were in the classroom, they could not very well...we were not asking anyone to jeopardize their jobs. But, they supported in other ways. There were some who supported in others ways, financially. You know, they always needed money.

HUNTLEY: So, the...go ahead.

B-PENDLETON: And, of course, when the students of the schools came out, well that was another situation where the teachers did not discourage the students not to go. And, of course, we would drive to the campus of the schools, but we couldn't go on the campus to pick the kids up. That is the children who lived way out in North Birmingham. Rev. Bevell, Rev. Andrew Young, well we called them Bevell and Andy at that time. They would tell us what school the kids were 00:41:00coming out and they needed to be picked up. But, some of these kids came out from schools a long distance away and they walked to Sixteenth Street Baptist Church and the teachers did not discourage them as far as we know. There were some, I understand that did, but very few.

HUNTLEY: Where were your children in school at the time?

B-PENDLETON: At Wilkerson Elementary School.

HUNTLEY: Were kids from Wilkerson leaving school and getting involved?

B-PENDLETON: I don't remember if any of them did. I really don't know. My children did not go. They were...well there were kids as young as they were, 9 and 10 and that time. My husband was opposed to taking them out of school.

HUNTLEY: What church, I think we've talked about this briefly, but what church 00:42:00were you a member of again?

B-PENDLETON: The First Congregational Church.

HUNTLEY: What was the level of its involvement?

B-PENDLETON: Very active. Harold Long, Rev. Harold Long was the pastor of the First Congregational church at that time and he was very involved. And, uh, I think, I'm not sure of this, but First Congregational was one of the few churches where inter-racial groups could meet. The Pastor Joseph Alwinger's church over on Sixth Avenue South of the Lutheran Church, they could meet there. But, for some reason I think they felt a little safer, I don't know, but they did meet at my church and I understand that St. Marks opened their doors.

HUNTLEY: So the congregation then was in support of...

B-PENDLETON: The congregation supported Rev. Long and we have a very small congregation. And, you see, Arthur Shores, one of the lawyers at that time for the Movement, one of the lawyers, is a member of that church, and our present...the Executive Director of the Civil Rights Institute, Odessa Woolfolk, is a member of that church.

HUNTLEY: So you all have a lot of rebels in that church. Tell me, are there any recollections that stand out in your memory during this period that probably, probably stand out more than any other, than any single incidents that you remember?

B-PENDLETON: Well, the day, that the first time they turned the water hose on the children when they came out of Sixteenth Street Church there at Kelly Ingram 00:44:00Park. See every time they marched, if they were going to march to the courthouse, we marched, if we could. We would always end up at the back of the line, but we marched.

HUNTLEY: Who are we?

B-PENDLETON: Deenie Drew and I. We marched with the kids. And, that day, we were at the back of the line when they came out of the church and to see the water hose turned on,the pressure from the water hose, turned on those young people, well there were young and old, it's heart rendering. It was terrible.

HUNTLEY: You see that on film today, what do you...

B-PENDLETON: It brings back... refresh memories, it really does. Uh, I can also remember a time when we were marching over to the jailhouse and, uh, over on 00:45:00Sixth Avenue South and Bull Conner order the policeman...oh, I get my marches mixed up sometime, but we were marching and Bull Conner order them to turn the water hose on and that day, one fireman did not turn his on and had tears in his eyes, I remember that.

HUNTLEY: So, that meant that you were pretty close to the front?

B-PENDLETON: Sometimes, sometimes. Most of the time I was doing other things and they needed people to do other things.

HUNTLEY: Tell me also about your activity, because I know that you were a member of the NAACP and you worked in voter registration campaign with W. C. Patten, 00:46:00can you tell me a little about that?

B-PENDLETON: Yes, uh Mr. Patten was asking for volunteers. I went down and we used the city directory to compile the voters list. We took the city directory and we wrote the names of every Black male and Black female listed.

HUNTLEY: Well, how did you know who was Black or not?

B-PENDLETON: The city had already done the work for us. They coded the book behind the name of White male they had a "one", by the name of a White female, they had a "2". By the name by a Black male "3", by the name of a Black female "4", so all we had to do was just list the names that were numbered 3s and 4s. We wrote the names, addresses and telephone numbers and then we compiled these 00:47:00voter lists by communities and we would call...there were other people now, not just Deanie and myself. There were other persons helping. We would call these persons, uh, ask them if they were registered voters and if they said no, and nine times out of ten they would say no, we would tell them about the clinics that were being held to educate people to register and vote.

HUNTLEY: How successful were those efforts?

B-PENDLETON: It was very successful because Black people wanted that opportunity to vote and they would go to these clinics and, they were taught how to register to vote.

HUNTLEY: Would this be in the 50s or the 60s?

B-PENDLETON: Now this was in...this was early 60s. Now in the 50s...let me go 00:48:00back just a minute.

HUNTLEY: Sure.

B-PENDLETON: I was teaching at Wenonah High School, I lived in Roosevelt City. We had to go over to the community of Wilkes which is across the highway from Val Hallow and Midfield. We had to go across to Wilkes to register to vote. They had questions, real long list of questions. They would ask questions like who was the dog catcher in the Bessemer cut- off area and you know, things like that. And, I smuggled a list of the questions out, took it to my class, I was teaching American History. I had it xeroxed, and took it to my class.

HUNTLEY: At Wenonah?

B-PENDLETON: At Wenonah and gave it to my students and they took it home to their parents and the parents studied them so they could pass the test, to learn 00:49:00to vote...I mean, that is to qualify rather.

HUNTLEY: Sure, sure. That's very interesting because we all know the kinds of questions that.....

B-PENDLETON: They were ridiculous.

HUNTLEY: And, if you didn't

B-PENDLETON: If you didn't know...

HUNTLEY: Absolutely.

B-PENDLETON: Well, that's how some of my students' parents got the questions.

HUNTLEY: Tell me about your activity with the Urban League?

B-PENDLETON: Well, at that time, there was a young man by the name of Clarence Wood that was here in Birmingham, he was a Birmingham boy and he invited me down to work with the Urban League. And, or course, you know they had a different program, that is training people. We knew that if the doors were opened, that we the people were demonstrating to open, that you had to have qualified people to 00:50:00fill these jobs. So, that was the role of the Urban League and, I helped in whatever way that I could. I don't remember all that, but I was secretary for awhile and I stopped that too.

HUNTLEY: So, you have volunteered, you have really been a professional volunteer. You've helped in a lot of areas...

B-PENDLETON: No, I do absolutely nothing but work with my church.

HUNTLEY: You do what you want to do now.

B-PENDLETON: Well, I'm a docent at the Civil Rights Institute.

HUNTLEY: Sure. What is your assessment of the Birmingham movement? How successful? What were it's accomplishments?

B-PENDLETON: Well, I think that the Birmingham movement was a moral mirror for the rest of the country. I think that it was the catalyst really that. . . the 00:51:00results were the 1964 Voting Rights bill. True, the people in Selma, you know the crossing of the Pettus Bridge, they were instrumental in encouraging...not encouraging but making Lyndon Johnson act on the civil, on the voting rights bill, but the Birmingham movement was catalyst for the movement in Selma, that's my opinion. I really think so.

HUNTLEY: Birmingham precedes the '64 Public Accommodations Bill, also...

B-PENDLETON: That's true, that's true.

HUNTLEY: And, that leads then to the Voting Rights Bill.

B-PENDLETON: That's true. That's what I mean when I say, the moral mirror and that's not my words. I picked that up from someone else, some book I read, I 00:52:00don't know.

HUNTLEY: What do you think were the real issues?

B-PENDLETON: Well, in the beginning, the real issues, we were just asking for basic necessity. Things that were. . . that you would expect any citizen to want. The right to sit and eat. The right to relieve yourself; public accommodations. The right to go to whatever school you want to do to these were the things that happened and only those persons who had the, the money and/ or 00:53:00the education could really take advantage of these things.

HUNTLEY: But, if you were Black, even if you had the money and the education,....

B-PENDLETON: That's right, here in Birmingham, we didn't have those opportunities.

HUNTLEY: Well, are there any other things that we have not touched upon that you would just like to mention, I know that you've talked an awful lot about a lot of things, and what we'll normally do is to, to look at this and we possibly. We'll have a follow-up at some point because I know that in an hour's time, we really. You know, I think it evokes and it stirs up some of your memories, but I'm sure when you get home you're going to remember some other things and then we, uh we will possibly want to do this again. But, I want to thank you for coming out, taking your time from your busy schedule and sitting with us today.

B-PENDLETON: Thank you for asking.

HUNTLEY: Thank you very much.