Hattie Felder

HUNTLEY: This is an interview with Hattie Felder for the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute's Oral History Project. I am Dr. Horace Huntley. We are at Miles College. Today is June 2, 1995.

Thank you Ms. Felder for coming out and sitting with us today. I certainly do 00:01:00appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule.

FELDER: You are welcome.

HUNTLEY: I would just like to start by just asking some sort of general questions. Where were your parents from?

FELDER: They were born in Alabama, of course, Dallas County.

HUNTLEY: Dallas County, Alabama?

FELDER: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Were both of them born in Dallas County?

FELDER: Both of them were born in Dallas County.

HUNTLEY: Were you born in Dallas County as well?

FELDER: Yes, I was.

HUNTLEY: How many brothers and sisters did you have and where did you fall within the group?

FELDER: It is 11 brothers and sisters. And there was five older than me and five younger than me.

HUNTLEY: So you sat right in the middle?

FELDER: Right in the center, yes.

HUNTLEY: Tell me a little about your parents, about their education first of 00:02:00all. I know that our grandparents didn't get a lot of education but just tell us a little bit.

FELDER: That's right. My father didn't get a lot of education. Of course, he was a very smart person so he educated himself a lot. And my mother was educated very well for those days. In fact, her mother lived with White people back in those days when she was born and it was her adopted mother, of course, and she had a very good life. She went to school.

HUNTLEY: You said this was her adoptive mother?

FELDER: Yes. She adopted her from a baby.

HUNTLEY: How much formal education did she have?

FELDER: I don't really remember, but I do remember her assisting in teaching 00:03:00whenever the teacher was absent back in those days.

HUNTLEY: So she was probably better educated than most others?

FELDER: Than most of the people in that area, yes. And she also helped my father. My father was with us a lot. And in our studies at night, she would be the teacher.

HUNTLEY: What were their occupations. Was your mother actually a teaching assistant?

FELDER: She was just a housewife/farmer. Farmer/housewife.

HUNTLEY: And your father?

FELDER: Was a farmer.

HUNTLEY: He as a farmer?

FELDER: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Did you own your own land?

FELDER: Yes. My father was a veteran of World War I and he bought the property, our family paid for it.

HUNTLEY: So lived in the rural section of Dallas County?

FELDER: Yes. In Orrville, O-R-R-V-I-L-L-E, Alabama.

HUNTLEY: Can you describe what the community of Orrville was like?

FELDER: Yes and no. We lived across the road from one White family who owned the store, Berry and Son.

HUNTLEY: Berry and Son?

FELDER: Berry and Son. And they were the only White people within miles to us. We had relatives. My father's brother lived next to us. They bought their places joining and that brother also had a lot of children who was right along with us in age. So we had churches in the neighborhood in walking distance. Of course, 00:05:00back in those days, you know, you could walk miles to church and to school. And every Sunday we were in church. One of those churches.

HUNTLEY: All right. Now this one White family owned the store and this is where you did all of your shopping?

FELDER: Oh, no. Oh, no. This was just a neighborhood store. My parents always shopped in Selma. In the City of Selma.

HUNTLEY: Were there sharecroppers in the area?

FELDER: There were sharecroppers. Those White people that lived across the street from us, or across the road had sharecroppers on their place, on that plantation.

HUNTLEY: So they had a pretty large area?

FELDER: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Tell me a little about you, the recreation during that time? What did you all do?

FELDER: Oh, we had something going all the time. We had a softball team within our family because my daddy played with us. And he would always see that there was no cheating from either side. Whatever we played. And we were playing something all the time. We worked very hard, but then we also played very hard, with each other.

HUNTLEY: So did all the children then work on the farm?

FELDER: Yes. We did.

HUNTLEY: What did you do?

FELDER: I've done some of everything. I've even plowed a mule.

HUNTLEY: Is that right?

FELDER: That's right.

HUNTLEY: So you could actually handle a farm if you had to?

FELDER: It's been a long time, but once upon a time I could have. Well, now, I'm too old anyway. But once upon a time I could have.

HUNTLEY: How would you describe your school, your high school for instance?

FELDER: Let me start with the elementary.

HUNTLEY: Sure.

FELDER: Our elementary teachers most of the time was also our Sunday School teachers. We grew up with teachers teaching us in school everyday and also on Sundays. So we were all sort of like family people. The teachers back then were very concerned about all students. This was with all families.

HUNTLEY: So what was the name of your elementary school?

FELDER: Providence.

HUNTLEY: Providence Elementary School?

FELDER: Our church name was the same thing. We were taught in a little building right out from our church.

HUNTLEY: Was it church affiliated?

FELDER: No it wasn't.

HUNTLEY: It was a public school?

FELDER: Right. A little two-room building with two teachers.

HUNTLEY: And then you left there and went on to?

FELDER: I went to school in Morlet Bend to junior high school. And of course, that's where I dropped out and came here because I was a mother at an early age. So back then, they didn't allow you to go to school with the other kids. I was determined to continue going to school.

HUNTLEY: So you left Orrville to come to Birmingham?

FELDER: Right. To support a child and go back to school.

HUNTLEY: When you arrived in Birmingham then did you have family here?

FELDER: Yes, I did. I came to my mother's niece, one of her nieces, I came to 00:09:00live with them and to get a job to go to school. I had to put my age up. I went to the county home, Ketona Home. I was supposed to have been 21 and I was always older looking than I was and I put my age up and got a job. Back then we didn't have social security cards and that came during the period while I was working out there. So I had to leave of course.

HUNTLEY: Is that where you first worked at Ketona?

FELDER: That was my first job I had at Ketona. I worked there three years.

HUNTLEY: What did you do out there?

FELDER: I worked in the kitchen department and serving the patients.

HUNTLEY: And did you go on to school at that time as well?

FELDER: I went to school at night. Poro Beauty School down here. After finishing 00:10:00Poro then I went back and got my GED years after that.

HUNTLEY: What year did you come to Birmingham?

FELDER: In 1949.

HUNTLEY: In 1949, that is just prior to the Alabama Christian Movement being organized.

FELDER: That's right.

HUNTLEY: Were you involved at all with the NAACP at that time?

FELDER: Yes. I was a card holder and I had gone to some of the meetings. Not a lot but I had gone to some of the meetings and I was a card holder at that time.

HUNTLEY: What was it like to be a member of the NAACP in Alabama in the 1950s?

FELDER: Just about like anything else. You had to believe in what you were doing. You had to believe in whatever would come up that was going to help us in 00:11:00anyway. When I say "us" I mean our race.

HUNTLEY: At that time the NAACP one of their issues was that of voting.

FELDER:That's right.

HUNTLEY: Were you a registered voter?

FELDER: At that time they had this system where if you had children out of wedlock, they asked you all kinds of crazy questions to keep you from voting. So we had to study those questions and we had to know who the governor was, all kind of things. Who the president was and all of his cabinet and the governor's cabinet. We had to learn all of those things to vote.

HUNTLEY: Did you pass the first time you went?

FELDER: I passed the first time, because I was one of those people that had to be sure. So I passed the first time, but of course, it was after the Movement 00:12:00had come into the Alabama Christian Movement.

HUNTLEY: Right. Well, in 1956, the State of Alabama outlaws the operation of the NAACP and the Alabama Christian Movement is established?

FELDER: That's right. Then that's when I passed the voter registration.

HUNTLEY: Were you a part of those first meetings when Fred Shuttlesworth and the Movement initially began?

FELDER: Yes, I was.

HUNTLEY: What do you remember about that period?

FELDER: I remember the seriousness of those meetings. The prayer and the determination to change the whole system. I remember the determination of everybody that was involved to make things better for the coming generation.

HUNTLEY: One of the first issues that the Movement dealt with was that of a lack of Black policemen and there was a lawsuit that was filed and, of course we didn't get our first policeman for over ten years after that. But there were other issues. Of course, the issue of the school system when Shuttlesworth attempts to have his children enrolled in Phillips High School. Do you remember that?

FELDER: Sure. I remember that real well. By the way, Rev. Shuttlesworth taught school in Orrville where I was reared.

HUNTLEY: So you knew him prior to coming to Birmingham?

FELDER: Right. He taught some of my sisters and brothers.

HUNTLEY: I see. What role did you play in the Alabama Christian Movement?

FELDER: Well to begin with, I would just go there. In fact, at our church, my 00:14:00sister was one of those who were teaching some of the members to pass all those questions I just got through talking about to vote. And I remember getting information and going back to the church to those questions and answers.

HUNTLEY: So was that what precipitated you getting involved in the Movement itself?

FELDER: Yes, it did. That was some of it.

HUNTLEY: Did you attend the mass meetings on a regular basis?

FELDER: Every time they had a mass meeting I was there. Because by this time I had started working as a beautician and I was self-employed. And so those people that could not attend the meetings because they would have lost their jobs I felt that it was my duty to come forward because nobody could fire me.

HUNTLEY: So that independence is what allowed you the opportunity to do what you did?

FELDER: Right. That was taught in us as children.

HUNTLEY: How would you describe a typical mass meeting?

FELDER: It is indescribable. It was like a revival. We had prayers and they were sincere prayers. We had the old time moans, the old time hymns and dedication.

HUNTLEY: Were there individuals who gave testimony about different incidents?

FELDER: Oh, yes.

HUNTLEY: Do you remember any?

FELDER: I remember a Mrs. Jordan, I believe her name was, that was related to the Hendricks brothers and I am sure you know about them. Everybody does. Because they were all involved, a big family of them. And she could moan like 00:16:00you have never heard a moan.

HUNTLEY: What do you mean "moan?"

FELDER: Well, I'm not a big singer, but you would have to hear it to believe it. One day, maybe we will have something like that all done over again so the young people can see where we were coming from.

HUNTLEY: You mean when one of the deacons or someone would lead a tune and then everyone would follow that call and response kind of music?

FELDER: That's right. And sometimes during a prayer there would be a spirit within that person in the audience that moan would come up out of their hearts. You could tell it was coming from the soul.

HUNTLEY: And that's what you remember about the mass meetings?

FELDER: That's right. It's one of those things that make you sleep real well when you go home at night.

HUNTLEY: So then these meetings were sort of therapeutic for you?

FELDER: That's right.

HUNTLEY: At this point, and I always have my class try to look at things in the context of their own times. Why were they so therapeutic? What was happening that this would make you feel so much better?

FELDER: We had the faith to know. You see we were taught faith and to believe in God. And we had the faith to know that somehow, someway things are going to be better. And we had that feeling within us.

HUNTLEY: Do you remember Birmingham policemen being in the meetings?

FELDER: Yes. All the time.

HUNTLEY: Why were they there?

FELDER: They were there to find out what was going on. And, all the time. They had connection back to Bull Conner I guess as to what was going on there. They 00:18:00wanted to find out if there was anything they could get there to put you in jail.

HUNTLEY: You mean, they were in radio communications?

FELDER: In radio communication all the time. Sometime you could actually hear it when it came on. But of course, I think we converted one of them while he was there in the meeting.

HUNTLEY: Is that right. Why did you think that?

FELDER: Oh. He started witnessing. He actually started witnessing in the meeting.

HUNTLEY: How do you mean? What did he say?

FELDER: Oh, he held up both hands hollering "holy, holy."

HUNTLEY: The spirit hit him?

FELDER: That's right. That's right. In those days it happened like that.

HUNTLEY: I had heard also that there were those times when the policeman would 00:19:00actually put money in the plate when it was passed around?

FELDER: Yes. Yes. And there were times -- we had sermons from different ministers from different churches. There were times they were actually involved. There were times we could see tears coming from their eyes. They had a job to do and they were not involved in doing the mean things. Some of them were really involved in, you know, they had to do this for their job, of course, but they didn't want to do it. We had some to testify to that effect.

HUNTLEY: Is that right?

FELDER: Yes.

HUNTLEY: I was also made aware that there were those who were termed to be "snitches" that were Black in the Movement?

FELDER: Yes. Well, I am sure that happens in everything. Of course, I can't put my finger on anybody that I know of.

HUNTLEY: So I would assume that if the policeman testifies or if he does 00:20:00something that is, you know, positive as far as the Movement is concerned, that information would get back as well?

FELDER: Yes. And naturally they wouldn't send him back anymore.

HUNTLEY: Did you participate in any of the demonstrations?

FELDER: Yes, I did. On Easter Sunday, I believe that was in '63 I went to jail for walking down the sidewalk. I wasn't doing anything. We were marching. And they just put us all in jail because we were marching.

HUNTLEY: How many of you were arrested that day?

FELDER: Oh, there was a lot of us. I remember Rev. King. Martin Luther King was already in jail. But his brother was involved in this.

HUNTLEY: This was the march where Rev. Smith, N. H. Smith, Rev. Porter and A. D. King were arrested?

FELDER: That's right.

HUNTLEY: And this is one of those famous pictures that were taken?

FELDER: That's right.

HUNTLEY: How long did you stay in jail?

FELDER: I was in jail twice because -- actually I went to jail at that time and when they brought our case to trial, Judge Brown was trying the case at that time. And he fell dead up there trying a case. In other words, he had just sentenced a retarded man. And I guess it was so stressful on him, he just fell. And when he fell dead, then Bull Conner came running in the room screaming, 00:22:00"Don't let the niggers get away, don't let the niggers get away. Call Judge Conway." So they called Judge Conway, and he had us all sent back to jail until they could set another trial for us. So we went back to jail that night.

HUNTLEY: So this judge actually fell dead?

FELDER: He was dead when he left out of there. It was the saddest thing I've ever seen in my life. I just wish it was one of those things that everybody could see how hate can kill you.

HUNTLEY: So you think it was the hate?

FELDER: It was the hate in him.

HUNTLEY: Did he exhibit hate during that day?

FELDER: And it was so stressful to him that he actually fell over. There was a young lady seated behind me and she was the first person to realize he was sick and she stood up and screamed and pointed, "He's sick, he's sick." And so they all ran.

HUNTLEY: Was this a Black woman?

FELDER: It was a Black woman. She was one of those that was in jail at the time I was there.

FELDER: I believe her name was Askew, her last name.

HUNTLEY: Margaret Askew?

FELDER: I don't remember the first name right now.

HUNTLEY: You say you were in jail twice. What were the circumstances of the second time?

FELDER: This was the second time. They sent us back to arrange the trial.

HUNTLEY: I see. But it was on the same issue that you were arrested. Well the day that you were arrested, how did they take you from the area that you were arrested, to the jail? Was it in a paddy wagon?

FELDER: In a paddy wagon. They had them all parked out there ready to take us. And they just filled up one right after the other one without anybody scuffling or anything like that. At that time they carried us all to jail.

HUNTLEY: Did others in your family participate?

FELDER: Yes. I had a sister that was very much involved. She was involved before I was with the students at Miles.

HUNTLEY: With the students at Miles?

FELDER: Yes.

HUNTLEY: How did other members of your family react to your participation?

FELDER: I have a very, very large family and I don't recall anybody in my family disagreeing. They didn't all participate by a long shot, but I don't recall anybody disagreeing with what we did. We were just in a position where we could not lose our jobs so this is why we went.

HUNTLEY: What about your customers, though?

FELDER: It was on Easter Sunday and I chose to go down there that day knowing that I may go to jail because after Easter week as a beautician your work is very slow. And I was working by appointments anyway. So I just didn't set up any appointments for the next week.

HUNTLEY: But there were no pressures on you from your customers?

FELDER: No. I got more customers. I really did. I had more patrons after then than I had for a long time.

HUNTLEY: Now, you were also associated with the Movement choir, is that correct?

FELDER: That's right.

HUNTLEY: Can you tell me a little about that? How was that organized?

FELDER: I can you tell you something about that but my sister could tell you a lot more because she was involved in organizing the choir. But I do know that 00:26:00Rev. Shuttlesworth as president of the Alabama Christian Movement asked some of the people from the audience if they would get the choir together and they did.

HUNTLEY: What church were you a member of?

FELDER: At that time I was a member of 46th Street in East Birmingham.

HUNTLEY: Was your church and pastor involved?

FELDER: At that time, yes.

HUNTLEY: Did you have meetings there at 46th Street?

FELDER: We had one I believe, maybe one or two. But our church was small at the time so we couldn't accommodate that crowd. It was a large crowd.

HUNTLEY: What benefits did you, your family and your community realize as a result of the Movement?

FELDER: One of the things I think, there were doors opened up that we had never 00:27:00been able to go through, places to go, things to do, jobs and all that sort of thing. Some of the younger people in our families have gotten very good jobs after that. And schooling.

HUNTLEY: So would you say that the Movement was, in fact, a success?

FELDER: Very much so. It could have been better, but I think this is because of the misunderstanding of what it was all about.

HUNTLEY: How do you mean misunderstanding?

FELDER: Some of the young people believe that the world owes them something and they don't realize that they have to work for what they get. They have to participate. They have to be aggressive themselves and I think about our 00:28:00generation working so hard to give them all of the material things that we gave them, they misunderstand. They don't know how hard it was for us to come by them.

HUNTLEY: Do you think that the Movement was successful or a failure in that regard of passing this on to a younger generation?

FELDER: I really feel that in some ways we sort of got off the mark. We didn't pass it on as well as we should have, believing that they would have understood. But they don't have enough information.

HUNTLEY: So you believe that there's a need then for us in our generation to 00:29:00develop mechanisms by which we can pass this information on?

FELDER: That's right.

HUNTLEY: And it will be passed on from generation to generation.

FELDER: That's right.

HUNTLEY: And you think that, in fact, would have a more positive impact?

FELDER: I believe it would help a whole lot.

HUNTLEY: Is there anything else that you would like to add that we have not dealt with that related to the Movement? Let me just ask you one question. If I ask you what was the most vivid memory that you have of the Movement during that time, what would you say?

FELDER: I believe that would be very hard to answer. But right now, since we were talking about jail, I remember there was a lady in this cell with me. We were all in one great big room with no mattresses on our beds. There were holes, 00:30:00rounds holes in those steel beds that we slept on with nothing but the clothes that we wore in jail. And there was a lady there, her first name was Bessie, I remember that because I had a sister named Bessie. But I don't remember her last name. And this lady had asthma and in the night this lady got very, very ill. And I had saved my call.

You know they would give you a chance to call out after you get in jail. So I had saved mine for an emergency and that night I called the Movement because I remembered where the Movement was that night to talk to Rev. Gardner who was the vice president to ask him to see if they could get this lady some help because we didn't think she would live until morning. And that lady, while I was talking 00:31:00to Rev. Gardner, you know they were listening to me. So while I was talking to Rev. Gardner, they came up and got her and carried her to UAB. They gave her a shot and a few hours latter they brought her back. She was doing better.

Now, they told her, she came in and told us that they told her she could go home if she wanted to from the hospital. But she told them she didn't want to go home. She wanted to come back with the group that she had gone to jail with. She wanted to be free. She wanted to have the same rights and privilege of any other human being on this earth and she came back to jail.

HUNTLEY: Would you call that commitment?

FELDER: Commitment. That was the kind of commitment we had back in those days.

HUNTLEY: Obviously the Movement had to have been made of people who had that kind of commitment and dedication --

FELDER: That's right.

HUNTLEY: Because without it it would not have been a success. Mrs. Felder I 00:32:00certainly thank you taking the time out and coming and spending this time with us today. We hope to sit down and talk with you again at some later date.

FELDER: Thank you for inviting me.

HUNTLEY: Thank you very much.