George Price

HUNTLEY: This is an interview for the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute with Mr. George Price. I am Dr. Horace Huntley, it is March 24, 1995 and we're at Miles College. Mr. Price thank you for taking your time to come and sit with us this 00:01:00morning to talk about Birmingham and the Civil Rights Movement.

PRICE: Thank you for inviting me.

HUNTLEY: We just want to start by just getting a little background information. Tell me a little about your background. Where were your born and where did you grow up?

PRICE: I was born in Greene County and at the age of three months old I was brought to Birmingham and I grew up in Avondale and Woodlawn section of Birmingham, Alabama. I attended school at Thomas School in Avondale and elementary school and from there to Lincoln School and from there to Parker. And, I was a freshman at Talladega College when I finished Parker High School, but due to the lack of money, I had to come out of school at about three months, so I couldn't go back to school then until I went into the Armed Forces of the United States of America. And, when I got out of the Armed Forces of the United States of America, I used my GI Bill a few years later to go back to school to 00:02:00try and complete my education, which I did at Tuskegee Institute in Tuskegee, Alabama.

HUNTLEY: Let me ask you, did you...when you came to Birmingham, did you come with your parents.

PRICE: My parents brought me. My aunt brought me to Birmingham because I was three months old.

HUNTLEY: Did they remain in Eutaw?

PRICE: My parents remained in Eutaw until their death.

HUNTLEY: And then you were raised by your aunt here in Birmingham?

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: So you then know very little about Eutaw and Greene County, Alabama?

PRICE: Very little.

HUNTLEY: So, you then went through the Birmingham school system and you went on to Talladega College.

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: From Talladega you eventually went to Tuskegee?

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: And from Tuskegee, what...was this after or before you went to the military?

PRICE: I went to Talladega before I went to the military, but Tuskegee after I 00:03:00went to the military because I didn't have no money and not having any money, doubtless had it not been for the military service, I wouldn't have been able to go to Tuskegee because I went on the GI Bill.

HUNTLEY: How long were you in the military?

PRICE: Four years.

HUNTLEY: Four years. After you came out of the military, then you went to Tuskegee. What was your major...what did you major in in college?

PRICE: General Education and Business.

HUNTLEY: And, after you finished Tuskegee, what did you do? What kind of work?

PRICE: I went to work for Conner Steel as an iron inspector for a short period of time and after that, I left and went to New York to better my condition. And my aunt that I lived with, after I was in New York maybe 18 or 19 months took sick and they called me and I came from New York here to see about her and I was 00:04:00here maybe two weeks and I went back to my job in New York and I was there maybe a week and a half before I was called back to come back to see about her. When I came back, she was so sick, I put her in the hospital and I just stayed until she died. I remained in Birmingham then and I went to work for General Houseware Corporation and I remained with General Houseware until I retired.

HUNTLEY: What did you do at General Houseware?

PRICE: A welder.

HUNTLEY: A welder. You also were a member of a labor union.

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: What company did you work for when you were a member of that labor union?

PRICE: I was a member of the labor union even when I worked at Conner Steel and when I was with Dupont, I was with a labor union, too. I've always, wherever I worked, if there was a labor union available, I always joined the labor union.

HUNTLEY: One of the labor unions was Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers. Can you tell me a little about that organization. How active were you involved with them?

PRICE: With Mine and Smelter Workers, I went from a shop steward to vice president in the labor union. . . oh. . . I was a shop steward for maybe six months and from there to a committeeman and from a committeeman to vice president over a period of years. And, I was elected vice president at least three different times.

HUNTLEY: Is this in the 50s?

PRICE: Yeah.

HUNTLEY: So, this is the same time that Mine, Mill and the Steel Workers union. . .

PRICE: No, before then.

HUNTLEY: Before they merged?

PRICE: Before they merged.

HUNTLEY: So then, you knew Asberry Howard?

PRICE: Definitely so.

HUNTLEY: How well did you. . .

PRICE: We were good friends.

HUNTLEY: Did you work together in the union?

PRICE: Oh yes, and negotiating contracts and file as a grievance committee and fighting cases for men and trying to see that people get their fair share of rights when men were fired from their jobs. Asberry Howard and I worked together for a number of years doing this.

HUNTLEY: The. . . Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers Union organized in Birmingham in 1933 and in the 40s there was a big rift between Black workers and White workers. Black workers lived and died by Mine, Mill. There were some White workers that were also involved with that. This was prior to your getting involved in the union, right?

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: So, Black workers looked at that union as being more than just a union, but really a way of life because they had official positions that was designated 00:07:00for Black workers. . . vice presidents, the recording secretaries and others. In other words, it was an inter-racial union. Was it still that way when you were involved in the 50s?

PRICE: Yes, most of it was that way. I can't think too much has changed in that particular time during the time that I worked for... the company that I worked for at that particular time was very rude to the workers and they weren't really nice as they should have been. So, we always had some up road that we always had to fight for and we had to call Asberry Howard in, being the vice president of Mill, Mine, Smelter Workers in most cases. Then, we had a problem during contract negotiations trying to get increases in benefits and the company wasn't too liberal about doing that. We got such raises as five cents and seven cents 00:08:00and a dime and maybe the most I've ever saw there was fifteen cents on the hour.

HUNTLEY: Would you say that the union did make a difference?

PRICE: Made all the difference in the world. Without the union, they would run off anybody they want to and do what they wanted to do. They probably would pay different rates or wages for different people. When I mean different people Blacks would always be underpaid, but the union made it so where Blacks received what Whites received doing the same type of work. So, the union also made a difference in seniority whereas if you had a seniority over another person whether they were White or Black, the union saw to it that you got what was just for you by applying the seniority as it was supposed to be applied. If it not had been for the union, then other workers might have an advantage over you.

HUNTLEY: What community did you live in at that time during the 50s?

PRICE: Oh, 10th Avenue and the address was 3019 10th Avenue North.

HUNTLEY: So, is that Norwood?

PRICE: That's the edge of Norwood. Right at the edge of Norwood.

HUNTLEY: How would you describe that community? The make-up, the racial make-up, the occupations that people had?PRICE: Most the people in that community were ordinary working people. There weren't any highly educated people earning fair and low salaries. There wasn't anybody that I know that earned what I would consider a decent salary or made enough money to live in the type of community that they should have been able to live in.

HUNTLEY: So, most of those people probably lived and worked in that particular area?

PRICE: Worked in that area and there were other areas that they worked in beside there. Probably most over time, but, the type of people lived in there, they 00:10:00didn't earn too much money.

HUNTLEY: Okay. What was your community's relationship to the Birmingham Police Department?

PRICE: There was no relationship at that time with the Birmingham Police Department because the Birmingham Police Department was lily White. There weren't any Blacks in the police department and the police weren't too nice to Black people period in that area. I was stopped going to work several times by the police just coming to work and they searched me and want to know where I came from and know where I was going, so if they didn't find no gun, they decided to let me go on home. And, there was times that I come out the plant to my car and the police passed on the street, and if they see you getting in the car, they would turn around, stop and question you and you just got off from work. We had to go to the company and talk to the company concerning how rude the police were towards the workers when they got off at night. You see, at one 00:11:00time I was working from 3-11 and when you get off at 11:00 o'clock and take a bath it's 11:30. You get to your car it's about 20 minutes to twelve, so the police was on a rampage at that time and they weren't too nice to Black people at all.

HUNTLEY: And this is in the 50s?

PRICE: Yes.

HUNTLEY: And what did the company say when you'd go to them and inform about what the police were doing?

PRICE: They called the police department and they talked to maybe. . . I don't know. . . Jimmy Moore was Chief of Police at that time and they said that the police wouldn't bother us anymore, so they lightened up. They weren't quite as bad as they had been. They had been following fellows all the way to the gate. . . on the 11-7 shift whenever they got off at night there was a row of houses that Black people stayed just beyond the plant and down that street was a dead street and usually when you come out of the gate, if the police weren't coming 00:12:00down the street, they were coming from another direction for some employees, and they were intimidated by the police.

HUNTLEY: What plant was this?

PRICE: This was Alabama Cement and Tile owned by McCullough Industries.

HUNTLEY: Okay. Why would. . . why were they harassing workers at that point?

PRICE: I don't know all the answers to the question why they were harassing workers, but I do think that they wanted to know where you going if you were away from the plant. Where you were going at that time of night. It appeared to me that Black people didn't have the right to be on the street at that time of night because most time when I went home from work, if I didn't go up the railroad track or drive my car, I was intimated by the police.

But, if I drove my car, I might miss them. But if I walked, and went up the street, most likely I run into the police before I get home and if I ran into the police before I'd gotten home, they would stop me and ask questions.

HUNTLEY: Were you ever arrested?

PRICE: No.

HUNTLEY: Were you a member of any community organizations?

PRICE: Not at that particular time I wasn't.

HUNTLEY: But later you would get involved in a number of organizations?

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: Let me ask you, how and why did you get involved in the Civil Rights Movement?

PRICE: Well, when I was in the armed forces, I had a battery commander who was a captain. . . was a lawyer in civilian life and he was a captain in the armed forces. And, he looked over the payroll and found that we were drawing maybe $9 or $10 a month and he felt that that was too much money. . . we didn't need that much money, so he called a formation and asked did anybody want to join the NAACP. He said it was two dollars to join the NAACP and when he got through explaining, a fellow by the name of Willie J. Whitings, walked out of the line 00:14:00and I walked out and he said "all you want to join the NAACP, go to my office and I'll write you up and give you a card, so he. . .

HUNTLEY: Is this a White officer or a Black officer?

PRICE: Black officer. He wrote us up and gave a card to become a member of the NAACP and that happened in 1944 overseas.

HUNTLEY: You said that he looked at the payroll and you were making $10 a. . .

PRICE: Some were making $10, some were making more, but he didn't think that we should get that much money, so he felt like that we'd give two dollars of that to the NAACP because they were fighting the fight back in the United States of America. They'd had some race riots in Georgia and Detroit and around, and the NAACP was fighting because people were being put in jail unjustified.

HUNTLEY: So, $10 a week was. . .

PRICE: $10 a month.

HUNTLEY: A month. . . was big money at that time?

PRICE: Well, he thought it was because we were overseas and when you get 00:15:00overseas in the armed forces, some of the things that you have to buy in the United States of America such as soap, tooth powder and the things that a person needs, the government gives them to you. So, you really don't have a lot to spend the money for unless you're in a place where you can go to town where the ladies are, and we weren't right where the ladies were. . . we were out in the jungles, so he decided that we were drawing too much money. That caused me to get involved in it.

HUNTLEY: So, how many of you joined the NAACP at that time?

PRICE: It was about 20 joined the NAACP at that time.

HUNTLEY: So, that was your first encounter with a civil rights organization?

PRICE: First encounter.

HUNTLEY: Okay, but what did you do as a result of being a member while you were in the service?

PRICE: Wasn't anything I could do until I got back out of the service. And, when I got back out of the service, I joined. . . there was a NAACP chapter in Titusville, headed by Rev. T. L. Lane, so when I got out of the service, I joined that chapter and started working with that chapter.

HUNTLEY: What year did you get out of the service?

PRICE: Oh. . . '47.

HUNTLEY: So, from '47 to '56, you were actively involved with the NAACP?

PRICE: That's right.

HUNTLEY: What did you do?

PRICE: Well, we went to meetings and we had a situation in Birmingham where. . . a policeman's wife got in a parking place where a Black that worked at ACIPCO by the name of Parker and was having some meetings, so what happened is that, I guess she told her husband and the police arrested Parker and. . .

HUNTLEY: He was. . . Parker was. . . they had an argument about a parking spot?

PRICE: A parking space. And. . . they arrested Parker and put him in jail and sometime during that night or the next night, they went to jail and beat Parker up in jail. And the NAACP got on to that particular case and I became directly 00:17:00involved. And, at the same time, there were some houses being bombed on Center Street all the way up from maybe 11th Avenue up to the top of the Center Street hill there, 3 or 4 houses had been bombed and then the NAACP was all the legal organization that we had in this town at that particular time to fight for the victims.

HUNTLEY: Why were those homes being bombed at that time?

PRICE: All I can say is the perpetrators bombed them because they didn't want Black people to live in that community.

HUNTLEY: That was that White community that was turning. . . that Black folk had started to move into.

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: So, those homes that Blacks were moving into were being bombed?

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: So, this is actually prior to the development of the Alabama Christian Movement?

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: In 1956 then, the NAACP is outlawed from operating in the state, what happens then?

PRICE: When the NAACP was outlawed in '56, John Patterson was the attorney general of the State of Alabama, then the leaders got together and organized an organization called the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights. We met at Smith and Gaston Funeral Home and we discussed it and we discussed it again. We got a charter and we set a meeting to be at Sardis Baptist Church on June 5, 1956 and there was born the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights. So, we started to fighting segregation then and I was involved in any number of things.

HUNTLEY: Were you involved in the very first meetings of the movement?

PRICE: Very first meetings that they had on June 5 at Sardis Baptist Church.

HUNTLEY: What was your role?

PRICE: I was just...we were just getting it organized then. The organization had 00:19:00not been set up and the officers had to be appointed and elected and after the officers was appointed and elected, then we got a chance to go. It was about three meetings before we got all the officers appointed.

HUNTLEY: Did you serve in any official capacity? Were you an officer at the time?

PRICE: Yeah, I was a board member.

HUNTLEY: So, you attending then, the mass meetings regularly?

PRICE: Yeah, regularly.

HUNTLEY: How would you describe the typical mass meeting?

PRICE: Well, a typical mass meeting were as many people that probably could get into a church at that particular time. We discussed the problems of Black people, what we had to do because it was crucial in this town at that particular time. Blacks could not hardly vote, it was hardly possible for Black people to vote. It was hardly possible for Black people to live in certain communities without their houses being bombed. It was hardly possible for Black people to have a nice automobile up and down the street without being intimidated by the policemen. And, at the same time, we. . . as we went on. . .Bethel Baptist 00:20:00Church was bombed and later on, after Bethel Baptist Church was bombed, Sixteenth Street Church was bombed as we went along.

And then. . . before then, we had to set up clinics, so what we did was try to get. . . there was a very few people registered to vote at that particular time and it was so hard for people to become registered until. . . we had to set up a way to teach them and we had a questionnaire of about maybe 50 or 45 questions. Probably took a college graduate to pass. . . the vote. . . to be registered. And, so many people were being turned down. . . not all of them on education, because they didn't ask legal questions. . . we had all the answers to the legal questions, but they asked questions that you probably wouldn't know. For 00:21:00instance, they asked women "when was your first child born" and then they asked her when did she get married. Then, they asked women, "you sure all them children your husband's children?" And they turn them around on more questions. And, we kept records on those that they turned down and we--over a period of maybe three years, we'd had something like 40,000 folks was turned down by the Board of Registrars.

HUNTLEY: Was this as a result of your work with the NAACP or the Alabama Christian Movement?

PRICE: This was the Alabama Christian Movement, but the NAACP led me up to this. NAACP was out at this time.

HUNTLEY: I notice that you are credited with being responsible for over 17,000 people. . .

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: Being registered as voters and this is during the Alabama Christian Movement period.

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: That's impressive. At the meetings. . . were Birmingham police present?

PRICE: Yes. At all meetings, Birmingham police were present.

HUNTLEY: What was their purpose there?

PRICE: To watch and to see and to hear what was going on.

HUNTLEY: And, were they welcomed, or. . .

PRICE: Yeah, we welcomed them. We thought they shouldn't have been there. A lot of times we made statements as to whether they should have been somewhere else trying to catch some crook 'cause we were Christian people trying to get our rights and freedom, but they didn't pay any attention. They were at the meeting on time every Monday night.

Nobody did anything to them. They enjoyed it so they got where they laughed, but they realized that they were in the wrong place and they were in the wrong place watching God's people.

HUNTLEY: Did others in your family participate?

PRICE: Yeah, one or two.

HUNTLEY: Did any of them go to jail? You were never arrested, right?

PRICE: Well, I stayed out for a purpose. Being a board member, we had to look out for others. I would have been arrested like all the rest of them, but I was out for a purpose, to help get others out of jail and what have you.

HUNTLEY: Okay. Were you one of those that helped to raise funds?

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: Did you ever do any speaking in Birmingham or outside of Birmingham for the purpose of raising funds.

PRICE: Not too much speaking for raising funds, but for the event of the Civil Rights Movement, I spoke all the time. I spoke at the mass meetings every Monday night for years.

HUNTLEY: Okay. How did other members of your family react to your participation? The level of involvement that you had in the movement?PRICE: Well, when I first got started, I got a little kick from my family. They said a few things to me that I didn't think too much of because they didn't quite understand what was going on and what was involved. So, I tried to explain to my family, but they 00:24:00didn't accept all I said. They saw they weren't going to stop me, so they quit talking to me about it. So, I just kept on. . . so finally, they started coming in one by one. I finally got them all into the movement.

HUNTLEY: So everybody eventually would get involved as a result of your involvement?

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: Tell me about some of the incidents that you may have witnessed, the kinds of things that were happening during this time.

PRICE: Well, an incident happened. The Shuttlesworth children were on a bus coming to Birmingham and they were pulled off the bus in Gadsden, Alabama and put in jail and we formed a. . . we knew that it's a possibility it wouldn't be safe for one or two people to go to Gadsden to try to get the children out. So, we had a little convoy, 5 or 6 cars and I was driving a car that belonged to Mr. Colonel Stone Johnson and we went to Gadsden. I had the papers; bonds to get the 00:25:00children out of jail but when I got to Gadsden, Alabama, it was denied for me to get the children out of jail. So I couldn't get the children out of jail because they wouldn't accept the bonds. They turned the bonds down even though they were signed by responsible people and people in authority. But, the officials in Gadsden wouldn't accept this. So we had to come back to Birmingham without the children and go back at another time to get the children.

HUNTLEY: Why were they arrested?

PRICE: Because they refused to give up their seats to somebody on the bus.

HUNTLEY: In other words, they were sitting. . . toward the front and wouldn't give their seats up for Whites that had gotten on the bus?

PRICE: Yes, that's correct.

HUNTLEY: How many children were there and what were their ages?

PRICE: Oh they were young, they ran from maybe from 13 to about 17 years old.

HUNTLEY: What happened, did you eventually go back and you. . .

PRICE: Yeah, another group went back and they released them, but they had to do some work and had to get some lawyers and going to a few things in order to get them out of jail.

HUNTLEY: Was it a fact that they had to get a bondsman from Gadsden rather than using a bondsman from Birmingham?

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: So they were really trying to get business for their own people, in their own town in. . . and would not recognize what the bondsperson from Birmingham, is that correct?

PRICE: That is part of the truth, but I don't think it's altogether true because after all, Birmingham is not a long ways from Gadsden, Alabama. So they could have accepted the bond since it was the State of Alabama. If it had been another state, I might have went along with them doing it for that purpose, but being this close to Birmingham, I don't accept it. I think that they could have let us 00:27:00have the children. It was some ill will involved why they didn't let us have them.

HUNTLEY: Absolutely. What church were you a member of?

PRICE: New Hope Baptist Church.

HUNTLEY: New Hope. Was your church involved. . . your church or your pastor involved with the movement?

PRICE: Part of them. A few. . . quite a few members at our church were involved and my pastor was also, and his wife.

HUNTLEY: So, then, he really didn't have any--any difficulty because there were other pastors who were not involved, is that correct?

PRICE: Sure, there were a lot of pastors that were not involved.

HUNTLEY: So your church then, being involved, that encouraged your minister to be involved and I'm assuming that you were partly responsible for that as a leader in your church. Were you a deacon in your church?

PRICE: No, I wasn't a deacon at that time.

HUNTLEY: Okay.

PRICE: My pastor was a brilliant man and when he came he talked about 00:28:00registering voting oh. . . when I joined the church, after I got out of the Army, I was a member of the church before I went, but after being away a number of years, I had to rejoin the church when I got out the Army. And, he was from Atlanta, Georgia and that was part of his talk, registering and voting. So, there was no problem to get Rev. involved. I heard him say some things that I respect him really high for. He'd take the money out of his own pocket and had a clinic at New Hope Baptist Church for the members and other people to come in and learn how to go down and register and vote.

At that particular time, we had some members in New Hope Church was in age, something like 50, 60 years old and they went down to vote and we had a poll tax in the City of Birmingham and they had to pay poll tax from the age they were 21 00:29:00up to 56 or 60 or 70 years of age. Some of them paid $30 and $40 back poll tax before they could vote in that church. And, the chairman of the deacon board was an elderly man, pretty close to 70 years old, if not that, and he paid his poll tax and they charged him poll taxes from 21 years to 70 years before he had the privilege to vote. And, there were more than him. Deacon Cliff Watkins, after Mr. Ben Grisby passed on, Deacon Cliff Watkins became the chairman of the deacon board.

When he became the chairman of the deacon board, he. . . he went down and registered and had to pay a lot of money. Mr. C. C. Jones, was a deacon at New Hope and had been there a long time. I understand he paid $30 some dollars and just on goes the story.

Whereas, at the Board of Registrars, make you pay all that back tax before they let Blacks vote.

HUNTLEY: Who is your minister at that time?

PRICE: Rev. Herman Stone.

HUNTLEY: Rev. Herman Stone. You suggested that the issue, some of the issues that were involved with the movement at the time were police harassment, voter registration actually, the kids that you talk about with Rev. Shuttlesworth, of course the schools were an issue. Were there other issues that the Movement dealt with that you were remember vividly?

PRICE: Oh yeah.

HUNTLEY: What about the buses? Did you have any activity. . .PRICE: Yeah, riding the buses in the City of Birmingham. I was downtown one day not too long after the Supreme Court handed down the decision that the buses were integrated. You know, in the segregated days, you rode the bus in the back of the bus and it made no difference how crowded the bus was with Blacks, they didn't let but so 00:31:00many Blacks ride--they put a board there and the Blacks could not ride up front. They had to stand in the back. But then after the Supreme Court ruled on the bus, I was downtown and caught the bus and when I caught the bus, I sat in the White section where Whites had been sitting just on the bus.

Didn't many people sit down behind me, but when I got where I was supposed to get off at, the bus driver didn't let me off, so we went another block. So, I got out and took my pencil and paper and took the number of the bus and his number, he was kind of nasty about it. It wasn't a law then. We had to go and negotiate the buses were. . .the bus drivers were still doing the same thing now, as they doing in the segregation days, not allowing people. . . they couldn't put the boards in the buses, but they were being nasty right on for a while. We had to go to Tennessee and get some White students from a school in 00:32:00Tennessee and bring them to Birmingham and put in the back of the buses in order to try to make it totally integrated.

HUNTLEY: So, you actually solicited assistance from outside of Birmingham?

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: From young White students who would actually sit in the back and Blacks would sit in the front?

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: What was the reaction then to. . . of the bus drivers?

PRICE: The bus drivers didn't become nice until the Alabama Christian Movement board meeting met with the bus company and the City of Birmingham, the city attorney and the bus company and told the bus company that. . . what the bus drivers were doing. So the bus company said that they would tell the bus drivers to just drive the bus, don't have any fear with the passengers. Then, the stuff began to let up, but before then, they were not actually harassing, but they 00:33:00were making inconvenient for the passengers. And even in the segregated days, it was terrible. It was almost unbearable in the segregated days.

Where sometimes if the bus was crowded, you had to go into the back door of the bus. Couldn't even go in the front door. . . and stand up wherever you had to go to and get off not having the privilege to sit down even though there were seats available that you could sit down. The bus driver was just too nasty to move the board, so you had to stand up until you got where you were going.

HUNTLEY: Is it true that you'd actually have Black people standing up on the bus and many times there were few Whites on the bus, but in order to get off, even though you're standing in front of the back door, you had to walk back through all of the people and get off the bus rather than being able to get off on the front?

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: That's. . . those were some tough times.

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: Were you associated with Rev. Shuttlesworth when he went to integrate 00:34:00Phillips High School?

PRICE: No, I was working that day.

HUNTLEY: What do you remember about that time?

PRICE: Oh, they beat him up and Rev. Abraham Woods drove the car from the scene. Rev. Phifer drove the car to the scene. Rev. Phifer was, at that time, the second vice president of the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights, so he drove Rev. Shuttlesworth to Phillips High School. We had to plan it, but I had to work and I couldn't get off. If I could have gotten off, I would have been there. I got off that afternoon and they had taken Rev. Shuttlesworth home because he was beaten up. The perpetrators were around with rocks and cans in their hands and there were people from my family and friends that I know, were there to testify to what the perpetrators did when Rev. Shuttlesworth got out of 00:35:00the car. . . they crowded around and beat him up. . . and they did beat him up.

HUNTLEY: And, they actually stabbed his wife. . .

PRICE: Yeah and said all kinds of nasty words. The language was bad that the perpetrators used because they used the word nigger and there was no such thing as a nigger, that's just what they wanted to use to disgrace Black people.

HUNTLEY: It's ironic that today, Phillips High School is 99.9% Black.

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: 1961. . . Bull Conner made a statement because there were Freedom Riders that were going through the south and he was. . . he suggested that the Freedom Riders had more sense than to come to Birmingham. Of course, the Freedom Riders did come into Birmingham. Were you involved in that at all, because I know there were those who left here and went to Anniston to help bring people down? Did you have any involvement in.

PRICE: Not in the Freedom Rides because I was working during the time. They came around 11:00 o'clock that day and I had a job and I wasn't able to be involved, but I know about it.

HUNTLEY: In '62, Miles College students got involved in a Selective Buying Campaign. Are you familiar with that?

PRICE: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Can you tell me how that was developed?

PRICE: Well, they came to the Movement. We had a young people's division in the Movement and in the Movement we had a director as to what we did from day and from time to time as to whether we would stage any buying campaign or whatever it might be, we were directed from the Movement. So, Miles College students--a buying campaign by going down in the city to buy different products at different places. At that particular time, there were places in the stores that Blacks . . 00:37:00. were segregated. I bought the better-quality shoes. . . not because I was able to buy them, but because I didn't want to be segregated.

The stores that sold the lesser quality shoes, had a special place for you to sit down. They'd take you back into the store where nobody would be, unless it'd be one or two Blacks. All the Whites would be up front where you could buy a pair of shoes at a reasonable price. But, where you had to pay right smart of money for the shoes, then they weren't so segregated. You could sit down wherever anybody else sat. That caused me to pay a little bit more money for my shoes, because I didn't want to go back there. And, two or three stores I went into, they'd carry you back in the back to sit you down to try on a pair of shoes, and I didn't like that.

HUNTLEY: Do you remember what stores those were?

PRICE: Oh yeah Regal Shoe Store, Flagg Brothers Shoe Store and Bob Young's Shoe Store.

HUNTLEY: Was Odum, Bowers & White one of those that. . .

PRICE: No.

HUNTLEY: You could go into that one, right?

PRICE: You could go in and sit down where you wanted to.

HUNTLEY: '63, of course, with the demonstrations in April and May. . .

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: What do you remember most about that period?

PRICE: Well, we marched to the city jail on Sunday and they would have the hose pipes and water and prayed and some of the preachers asked them to. . . we didn't want to go any further, just up to the jail to pray and they refused to let us go. So, some started walking off and all of us walked off and we went on to the jail. But, the fire department was out there with hose pipes to keep us from going to the jail, just to pray.

HUNTLEY: Were you ever among any of the marchers when they turned the hoses on and turned the dogs loose?

PRICE: I was with all of that.

HUNTLEY: Is that right?

PRICE: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Can you just sort of explain what that was like; facing the dogs and the hoses?

PRICE: Facing. . . well we had a lot of children and vicious dogs. . . German police dogs, and the hose pipes were strong that they turned on. . . on any number of people. I might say it might run into a thousand people. . . where they were children and knocked children down in the street and, at the same time, sicced the dogs on the people and the dogs had--and the people had to fight the dogs off. But, they didn't have anything to fight the dogs with. But, at the same time, people was somewhat devastated because of the fire hoses and because of the dogs. The police did not do anything to keep the dogs off the people, nor did the fire department turn the water off. They were doing this to run the people. . . it was a lot of ill will. It was a tragic situation in 00:40:00Birmingham at that time.

HUNTLEY: Did this dissuade people from getting involved with the Movement?

PRICE: No, it increased people getting involved. Instead of driving people from the Movement, people came more and more and more.

HUNTLEY: Were you ever involved in any. . . any of the Movement outside of Birmingham?

PRICE: Yeah, I went to Selma and marched a little, but I didn't make the whole trip, but I went and marched some.

HUNTLEY: Were there ever any times when you. . . well, were you associated closely with Dr. King?

PRICE: Yes.

HUNTLEY: What was your relationship?

PRICE: Just a good friend. Dr. King sent for me to come to Montgomery, Alabama. I am the person that came up with the ten reasons why Black people should vote and he looked at it and he thought it was very good, so he sent to call Rev. Shuttles worth and told him to tell me or to bring me to Montgomery---he wanted 00:41:00to talk with me. So, Rev. Shuttles worth and Rev. Gardner and Rev. Charles Billups and Mrs. Lola Hendricks and myself went to Montgomery to Dr. Martin Luther King's establishment. He had an office there. We discussed the ten reasons why Black people should vote. Dr. King became a good friend of mine during the civil rights struggle.

We discussed a lot of things and even during the demonstrations here in Birmingham, we sat down at the old Smith and Gaston building maybe until 12, 1 and 2 o'clock in the morning deciding what to do for Birmingham, because we had 3,000 people in jail and we had run out of money and so we got $50,000 from SCLC and at that particular time, Rev. Ralph David Abernathy was the treasurer and he give us a check for $50,000 to help us get some of the people out of jail, but 00:42:00that wasn't a drop in the bucket. We couldn't get the people out of jail with $50,000 because the bonds were $2,000 for children, so we had to go to Atlanta and get a federal judge to hand down a decree and order they turn the children loose and let them go back to school.

So, we put a lawyer on the plane and sent him to Atlanta and filed the case in Atlanta with. . . in the 5th Circuit Appeals Court. What had happened in Birmingham and he sent an order through the federal judge that Judge Glenn was the federal judge at that particular time. . . an ordered him to put the children back in school--that's how we got them out of jail, most of them.

HUNTLEY: There were efforts made by individuals here in Birmingham to assist people in other parts of the country when they had difficulty where civil rights were concerned. Were you involved in any of that?

PRICE: Yes.

HUNTLEY: What were you involved in?

PRICE: I went to Virginia to. . . they shut down the schools in Virginia and wanted to charge the people $20 per child per week and some Black people had 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10 children and making $30 maybe $40 dollars a week at the most and they couldn't afford it and it devastated the whole city of Norfolk, Virginia. We went to try to help and see what we could do to give them some aid as what should be done in the city in Virginia.

HUNTLEY: You are suggesting they were closing the public school system?

PRICE: They closed the public school system down.

HUNTLEY: And, establishing. . .

PRICE: Private schools.

HUNTLEY: And, they would allow Blacks to attend those private schools?

PRICE: If they could pay.

HUNTLEY: If they could afford it. So, you and others from here. . . was this with Dr. King or. . . or was this. . .

PRICE: Dr. King was in the hospital at that time. . . where a woman had stabbed 00:44:00him in the chest with a letter opener. So, the other top officials took over. Dr. C. K. Steele was vice president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. Dr. Ralph David Abernathy was treasurer of SCLC and Rev. Shuttles worth was a board member. . . I don't know exactly what his position was, but in Norfolk, Virginia, he'd taken over and we discussed what needed to be done so we went out on the school grounds and offered an ultimatum to the city and the press covered this and we prayed and there were some perpetrators all around. We didn't know exactly what the perpetrators would do, but when we got through praying, then we marched away. But, we worked with the people that were in charge of the movement in that city to do the best that we possibly could to help them figure out what should be done.

HUNTLEY: On the local scene, what benefits did you, your family and community 00:45:00realize as a result of the Movement?

PRICE: I don't really think we benefited any more from the fact that there was a chance for young people and there was a chance for the coming generations. That what we went through, they wouldn't have to go through and make a better place for all of us to live. I think that's all we actually profited from it.

HUNTLEY: So you think that. . . it became a better place to live as a result of the Movement?

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: If you were in control of the Movement and could go back and change some things, what would you change?

PRICE: I don't think I would change anything much different from what actually happened. If I was in control of the Movement and could go back, I think at that particular time, what went on and how it went on. . . it wasn't a thing that you 00:46:00could plan from year to year and from month to month. You had to deal with it as it came up. It was a day-to-day thing. What came up today, you deal with today. What came up tomorrow, you'd deal with tomorrow. If it would be that way now, you would probably have to deal with it the same way. The opposition was so great at that particular time, and we didn't have money that we should have had, but we had to take what we did have. . . the lawyers weren't too lenient with us, so we had to. . . a lot of things that we would have done. . . that we couldn't do because of lack of finances, so right now, if I had to go back, I probably would have to do it the same way.

Because, in a civil rights struggle, what happened today may not happen tomorrow, so you have to deal with it a different way. So, I think that a lot of people felt that we should have had a course to travel, but we couldn't have a course to travel. The problem was that things came up differently. There were 00:47:00plans to do this, plans to do that. Whatever you do, somebody knew something just the opposite. You do something, somebody do something just the opposite and this kind of thing kept us always planning, always planning. . . you never knew directly what you would do.

HUNTLEY: Some people would say that the Movement died with Dr. King in 1968 and there is no movement going on today. How would you react to that?

PRICE: I think that's wrong. There is a movement going on today. A lot of people wouldn't be receiving what they're receiving, and a lot of people wouldn't be living like they are living and the circumstances of life wouldn't be. . . with the dark skinned people and a lot of Whites if there was not a Movement in this country; even today.

HUNTLEY: There's an attack now on affirmative action.

PRICE: Yes.

HUNTLEY: How do you view that?

PRICE: Well, we need affirmative action. There might be some parts in 00:48:00affirmative action that could be eliminated, but not affirmative action. Affirmative action has brought us a long way. If it had not been for affirmative action, there are a lot of things that exist today that would not exist and a lot of jobs that people have, they would not have if it had not been for affirmative action. It might be that people are disagreeing with the whole affirmative action. There might be some parts that they need to cut out or eliminate or revise. There's a possibility that affirmative action could be revised and do a better job than it's doing now. But you still need affirmative action.

HUNTLEY: Well, how would you assess the Birmingham Movement? How successful was it? What were the accomplishments?

PRICE: The accomplishments of the Birmingham Movement were fine. We didn't accomplish all the things that we maybe should have. . . I know we didn't accomplish all the things we wanted to accomplish. But we accomplished a lot in 00:49:00the process. There a lot of things that need to be accomplished now that we didn't accomplish then and probably we couldn't have accomplished then, but the Birmingham Movement was a great asset to Birmingham and to underprivileged people.

HUNTLEY: I've heard at least one student of those days suggest that Birmingham, particularly the school system, was integrated by the same mentality that segregated the school system. They didn't say the same people, but the same mentality. How would you react to that?

PRICE: I don't agree with that because Black people weren't in a position to segregate nor integrate. White people were in a position to segregate the 00:50:00schools. They were in a position to integrate the schools. Now, all the mentality, I have no knowledge of it, but we know at that particular time that we could only apply; ask for the law to be handed down. The people that was in a position to hand down the law were Whites. The people that segregated the schools were Whites.

HUNTLEY: What was the result of the integration of schools in terms of Black schools? How did the integration affect Black schools?

PRICE: I don't think it did a whole lot to affect Black schools. It might. . . I hope improve Black students because I'm not familiar with all the things they taught at that particular time, because I wasn't a member of the board of education, and I still don't know. But, at least it gave children an opportunity 00:51:00to go to schools closer than a lot of kids that probably weren't able to go to these one or two schools that they had in Birmingham by integrating the schools that put a high school near wherever Black children lived and they could attend that school which made it better on the parent's budget and made it better on the child and the child had a better opportunity of learning because he could be. . . in most instance exposed to some knowledge that he wasn't exposed to in the beginning. And, being exposed to knowledge would give you a better opportunity to learn, so I think maybe integration did quite a bit for Blacks by giving them a better opportunity to learn by exposing them to a different type of knowledge.

HUNTLEY: Okay. Is there anything else that you'd like to add that we hadn't dealt with today?

We've covered a lot of ground. Is there anything that I have not asked that you would like to. . .

PRICE: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Okay.

PRICE: I would like to say that during that struggle, we had to take people to the vote of registrars and they'd be turned down and couldn't vote and couldn't register and we had to set up clinics throughout the city to teach our people how to register. And, after teaching them how to register, when they registered, come back to the clinic and teach them how to vote because during that period of time, I remember that in general elections you have maybe, at that time, a 100 or 135 people running for 30 offices or 25 offices and you had to pick over 100 and something people to choose 25 people.

And, if you vote, pull the lever by the wrong person's name, the vote wouldn't count and you used machines then and a lot of people wasn't so familiar with machines. They allowed you three minutes in the machine and I've been in the 00:53:00line many times when there were other members of other races being in the machines 10 and 15 minutes, nobody say nothing. But when Blacks were in the machine, over three minutes, somebody was telling them they were spending too much time and I have spoke myself to the pollers at the polling place in the precinct, give them a little bit more time, you're a little unfair and sometime they would and sometime they wouldn't.

This was a handicap to Black people in order to cast their ballot because you have to be very good to select 30 folks out of a 135 people voting. Sometime we had 6 to 10 folks. I remember in the State of Alabama, 10 folk ran for governor of the State of Alabama and 10 for lieutenant governor and six for one particular job. . . one particular position. Maybe five for another. During this, you'd select maybe 25 positions that people going to public office and you 00:54:00have only three minutes to do this and Blacks were deprived of the right of staying in the polls over three minutes and there were others from other races could stay in there maybe 12, 14 minutes and sometimes the lines, at that particular time, would be 3 or 4 lines, depends on how machines you had and if you had 10 machines, and that's in a major election, the building where you would be full of people, and on the outside, you'd have maybe a line worth 2 or 3 around the corner. So, the polls would have to be opened to 9 and 10 o'clock to get all the folks over. They closed the doors at 7 o'clock and if all is not in the building at 7 o'clock, the rest don't get a chance to register. That has happened to Black folks, as well as Whites, mostly Blacks.

HUNTLEY: Last year, two years ago as we viewed South Africa voting for the first time, did that remind you at all of Birmingham?

PRICE: Yes.

HUNTLEY: The same kinds of lines that existed probably even larger lines in South Africa?

PRICE: And much more difficult. They were voting with a ballot you push in a hole, just mark it with a pencil in South Africa and push it in a box, but in Birmingham, Alabama you had a machine sitting over there that had been programmed with people's names on it and you had to look on that machine and find the person's name that you was looking for and pull the lever by that name which took much more time to do it. And, you had to read real fast. You couldn't hardly make any mistakes, 'cause if you made any mistakes, then the ballot wouldn't count. So, you would lose that ballot. We'd lose some ballots during that time. That was somewhat unfair to a lot of voters and especially to Blacks too.

HUNTLEY: And that has changed as a result of the kinds of protests that were made during that particular time.

PRICE: Right.

HUNTLEY: Is there anything else that you would like to. . .

PRICE: Yes. The people that were turned down for voting, we noticed in Alabama there was a poll tax imposed on people, I said a little about it, but I want to say a little more about it. The poll taxes that was imposed. . . if you were pulled and didn't have the money to pay your poll tax for a certain time of the year, then you didn't get a chance to vote. Your poll tax had a deadline to it and if you didn't pay the poll tax by the deadline, then you couldn't vote that year.

This was. . . poll taxes was payable every year whether there was an election or not. But, then poll taxes are $1.50 to civilians that had no military and poll tax was to poor, a lot of times couldn't afford to pay the money for poll tax because food was a problem, housing was a problem, so this way, a lot of poor 00:57:00people didn't get a chance to even register to vote and even if they registered they couldn't pay the poll tax, they still couldn't vote.

HUNTLEY: What was the purpose of the poll tax?

PRICE: I don't know exactly what the state used it for, but they charged people to vote that's all I can say. I wouldn't be correct, because I don't know the voter registrars receive the poll taxes, but what they used it for, I have no knowledge of it.

HUNTLEY: Some have suggested that it was used to keep Black people from voting because there were many who could not afford it.

PRICE: It might have been, but I can't say for definitely it was.

HUNTLEY: Okay. Well, I certainly appreciate your taking your time out of your busy schedule and coming and talk with us today, because what you have done for us, you've helped us to put another piece of the puzzle together.

PRICE: Thank you.

HUNTLEY: And, we thank you for that time and you will be hearing from us again.

PRICE: I appreciate you're having me.

HUNTLEY: Thank you.