Floretta Tyson

HUNTLEY: This is an interview with Mrs. Floretta Scruggs Tyson for the 00:01:00Birmingham Civil Rights Institute's Oral History Project. I am Dr. Horace Huntley. We are at Miles College. It is May 5, 1995. Good morning, Mrs. Tyson.

TYSON: Good morning.

HUNTLEY: It is good to have you here. Of course, you are very much aware that what we are attempting to do is to get material on Birmingham, the Civil Rights Movement and your contribution to that. So again, I say welcome, and thanks for coming to sit with us. Let me just start by asking you a few general questions about your background. Tell me a little about your parents. Where were they from and what were their occupations?

TYSON: Well, both my mom and my father were both from Selma, Alabama. And my father worked for the City of Birmingham. My mother really didn't work.

HUNTLEY: She worked at home?

TYSON: Right.

HUNTLEY: Well, how many brothers and sisters did you have?

TYSON: I have five sisters and three brothers.

HUNTLEY: Well, I would say that she did work, quite a bit. How many of those were older and bow many younger than you?

TYSON: Okay. I got three sisters younger than I am. I got two older than I am. And my three brothers are older.

HUNTLEY: Okay. Did your parents go to high school here in Birmingham?

TYSON: No. Well, my mother did. She went to, I think at that time it was Industrial?

HUNTLEY: Industrial High?

TYSON: Right.

HUNTLEY: Which is now Parker High?

TYSON: Right.

HUNTLEY: What community did you live in?

TYSON: In Titusville, which is the lower side of the south side of Birmingham, Alabama.

HUNTLEY: The lower side? Okay. How would you describe your community?

TYSON: It was a pretty neat community, you know. All Black. And all the families had a lot of kids.

HUNTLEY: What kind of work did people do that lived in your community?

TYSON: All kinds. There was nurses there. As much as I can remember, they did all kind of work there.

HUNTLEY: Across the board. They had teachers in the community?

TYSON: They had teachers. Not in the area where I lived growing up and going to elementary school. There wasn't any.

HUNTLEY: What elementary school did you attend?

TYSON: Washington.

HUNTLEY: What do you remember about Washington school?

TYSON: It was a fun school. The rest of my sisters, the older ones, they went there, so everybody knew me when I got there because I had other people that had been through there already. But it was a pretty nice school. And I lived about a half a block from the school which was really nice.

HUNTLEY: So you didn't have to get up as early as the other kids had?

TYSON: Right. And I could go home for lunch.

HUNTLEY: Okay. What high school did you attend?

TYSON: Ullman.

HUNTLEY: Did you walk to school?

TYSON: Sometimes, I did. Sometimes we would ride the bus. But we really enjoyed walking because most of the kids walked.

HUNTLEY: What do you remember most about Ullman?

TYSON: It was a nice school. I enjoyed it. And I experienced the same thing at Ullman that I 00:05:00had at Washington, because my older sisters and brothers went there too. So, I was like familiar with it and Almoign was only about twelve blocks from where I lived.

HUNTLEY: You mean you walked twelve blocks?

TYSON: Yes. We walked twelve blocks.

HUNTLEY: Kids today won't walk two blocks.

TYSON: I know.

HUNTLEY: Well, did you ever hear of a school called Parker or did you ever play them in sports?

TYSON: Yes. That was our rival.

HUNTLEY: That's a big cross-town rivalry. What was your community's relationship to the Birmingham Police Department, do you remember anything in relationship to that?

TYSON: I can only remember my family's part, because I had bad brothers, so we came in contact with them. I guess basically we were afraid of them, you know. Not because they were doing 00:06:00anything to us, it's just because they were the policemen, you know.

HUNTLEY: The relationship. Did you look at the police as being in the community to protect and to serve the community?

TYSON: Yes. I would say so.

HUNTLEY: Why were you afraid of them?

TYSON: Because of what they stood for. You know if you did wrong, you were going to jail and that's the only thing I can remember about them really because they all knew. The ones that worked in the area knew you.

HUNTLEY: And they knew your parents?

TYSON: Right.

HUNTLEY: Okay. So you tried to stay clear of them as much as you could?

TYSON: Right.

HUNTLEY: Let's talk a minute about the Movement. I know that at the time of the demonstrations in '63 00:07:00you were probably a sophomore in high school. How did you and why did you get involved in the Civil Rights Movement?

TYSON: I can't remember why I got involved other than just hearing about it and wanting to participate in it and I just started going to the Movement, the meetings that they had. And it was very interesting.

HUNTLEY: Were there any of your friends who were involved before you got involved and they encouraged you to get involved?

TYSON: No. We all went together.

HUNTLEY: All basically at the same time?

TYSON: That I can remember, right.

HUNTLEY: And you attended the mass meetings on Mondays?

TYSON: Exactly.

HUNTLEY: How would you describe the typical mass meeting?

TYSON: They were like going to church and we would sing, we would pray. And they were just telling us 00:08:00little bits and parts about what was happening around us and how did we feel about it. It was really interesting.

HUNTLEY: Well, tell me about the day you and your friends decided that you were going to get involved in the demonstrations. Tell me about what happened that morning as you were leaving home. What was the atmosphere like?

TYSON: Well, I was kind of nervous leaving home because I really didn't think I was going to jail but I was getting prepared to. Because in the Movement they were teaching us the non-violent act and what to do in case we went to jail. I just don't believe we were going to 00:09:00jail because it's too many ofus. It never really dawned on me that I was going to jail, until I went.

HUNTLEY: It would be someone else, not you?

TYSON: Right. And I got prepared because that's what I was taught to do.

HUNTLEY: How did you get prepared?

TYSON: I took things out of the house like underwear, toothbrush, toothpaste in case I went to jail. And I was doing all of these things without my parents knowing that I was doing them. Because I knew she wouldn't like it, so I did it anyway. So I went on like I was going to school. And before I got to school, I was met by a group of people that said "I know you're not going to school, because you're going to the church." So I said, "Yes, you're right." So I went on to the church. And my friends and I went on to the church and when we got there it was a bunch of other people there and we had already been assigned 00:10:00to what we were going to do. So we got in our little groups and from then on, we were still being, they were still teaching us, telling us what to do in case something should happen. So, we listened and then it was time to march. Well, we got maybe about a half a block from the church and we were arrested. There were a lot of paddy wagons out. As I can remember, I was one of the first ones getting in the first paddy wagon.

HUNTLEY: Were there others that left with you that morning, from Parker on the comer of 6th Avenue and 12th Street. When you got to --

TYSON: Ullman.

HUNTLEY: I'm sorry, Ullman yes. That's a Freudian slip. 00:11:00Did most of the students leave with that group? Or were there others that went to school and then left?

TYSON: There were probably others that went to school and left. But it was quite a few of us that did not attend school at all that day.

HUNTLEY: Do you remember whether there was a march really from Ullman to the 16th Street Baptist Church, or do you remember how you got there?

TYSON: Well, it was probably a march, because none of us had cars. We probably all walked there.

HUNTLEY: What do you remember about your arrest?

TYSON: I was still thinking I'm not really going to stay here. Like I knew I was going to get out that night until that night came and nobody came to pick me up and I was terrified.

HUNTLEY: How long did you stay in?

TYSON: Nine days.

HUNTLEY: Nine days. And where were you housed?

TYSON: At the Birmingham City Jail.

HUNTLEY: Oh, so you were actually in jail?

TYSON: In jail, in serious jail.

HUNTLEY: Well, tell me about that experience?

TYSON: It was horrible.

HUNTLEY: How did that impact upon you as a sophomore in high school?

TYSON: It was horrible. I never want to experience it again. And I never went back. But it was terrifying because we were in a real jail where they had real criminals and my girlfriend and I we were so devastated about being there, we slept together because we just didn't want anybody to say anything to us. And there was no privacy there. It was just horrible. The food was horrible. We didn't eat anything other than junk out of a machine. I think we took maybe about a $1.50 a piece that we had for lunch money. Maybe it was bus money all combined, because I can't remember lunches being that much, but we both had about a $1.50 a piece so we survived 00:13:00off of the machines in the jail.

HUNTLEY: For nine days?

TYSON: Right.

HUNTLEY: Were there other students there with you?

TYSON: Oh, yeah, it was a lot. But it was not as many girls at that time. But the boys in there, but we never saw them after we got booked.

HUNTLEY: Do you remember how many young people were in the area? What was the physical make-up of the area? Was it a cell that you were in?

TYSON: It was like a cell, but a giant one, like maybe about 12 bunks in there, you know.

HUNTLEY: And were you mixed in with the other prisoners?

TYSON: Right. If you came to our floor, you would just come there and we had, it was like bars around it and you could see everybody there.

HUNTLEY: So you were really frightened about being there?

TYSON: Yes. Because I had never been in anything like that before. And they were picking up people off the street and they were angry because they were picked up and they were talking it out on us and oh, it was just terrible there.

HUNTLEY: What were others not associated with the movement there for?

TYSON: All kinds of things. I can really remember the prostitutes that they had picked up and they were really rowdy.

HUNTLEY: How do you mean rowdy? What would they do?

TYSON: Because they were just cursing and just carrying on and when they were talking they were talking like right beside our bunk and every time they said somethingout of their mouth, we were nervous.

HUNTLEY: So this was quite an experience for you then?

TYSON: Right.

HUNTLEY: And you stayed there for nine days?

TYSON: Right.

HUNTLEY: Did you call home?

TYSON: I didn't because like I told you earlier that my parents didn't want me 00:15:00to participate mostly because my father worked for the City of Birmingham and he thought he would lose his job. So I knew if l called there they wouldn't come and get me out so it was no reason to call. And I just stayed there. And I don't know if, I don't remember if they just decided to let us out, but getting out the city jail, a state trooper transported us from the city jail to the juvenile court and then my mother came there to pick me up. But going to that juvenile court was like going to heaven compared to that jail we were in.

HUNTLEY: But shouldn't you have been in juvenile when you went?

TYSON: Yes, but we lied about our ages because all of our friends were older, which were the boys and they were going to jail so we wanted to go with them because we figured they would protect us. That's why they took us there. And it was really a trip. We were 00:16:00riding over there in a state troopers' car. We went through the neighborhood and maybe somebody saw us, I don't know. But I know my mother came over and got me out.

HUNTLEY: And what was your mother's response, or reaction when she came to get you?

TYSON: That I was leaving town. As soon as school was out. And that is exactly what she did. She sent me away.

HUNTLEY: So you went to visit relatives?

TYSON: I went to stay with my sister. Well, I went to babysit for her. And I didn't come back until school started again.

HUNTLEY: Were you ever involved in demonstrations again after that?

TYSON: No, but I went to the meetings.

HUNTLEY: Were there other family members that were involved in the demonstrations?

TYSON: My brother participated but he didn't go to jail. He was one of the ones that 00:17:00they put water on. But the other sisters they were younger than me so they didn't get involved in it.

HUNTLEY: What church were you a member of?

TYSON: St. Paul's Lutheran Church on 6th Avenue South.

HUNTLEY: What was the level of involvement of your church and your pastor?

TYSON: Our church was really off into it, because we had a White minister at that time.

HUNTLEY: What was his name?

TYSON: Joseph Ellwanger. He was very active in it, so he supported us. And a lot of things that he did made us a nervous wreck. He was the only White person there and we were all Black and he would take us riding, and we would always think that somebody was trying to kill us.

HUNTLEY: So where did he live?

TYSON: Next door to the church.

HUNTLEY: So he lived in your neighborhood?

TYSON: In the neighborhood, right.

HUNTLEY: Was he married and had children?

TYSON: Right. He was married and he had kids and they grew up with us.

HUNTLEY: What schools did they attend? Do you remember?

TYSON: I don't know. I don't remember. I know they didn't go to Washington and they didn't go to Ullman, so I don't remember what school they went to.

HUNTLEY: Did his family attend all the church services?

TYSON: Everything, right.

HUNTLEY: So there was a close relationship between his family and the community?

TYSON: Right. As a matter of fact, we had all of the kids in our neighborhood going to our church because the church was so active and doing so many things that the kids didn't want to go to any other church.

HUNTLEY: After you and your friend were released from jail and 00:19:00you returned to school, what was that experience like? How were you received when you returned to school?

TYSON: Well, everybody was cool because everybody else was in it. Except, we all got expelled when we went back to school.

HUNTLEY: And how long were you expelled for?

TYSON: For two or three days at the most.

HUNTLEY: And your parents had to bring you back to school?

TYSON: Right. Either they had something on the TV or the radio to that effect that we could return to school.

HUNTLEY: What were the conversations like in your home after you had been arrested?

TYSON: Most of it was about me in jail and how did I feel and what did I do? Basically, stuff like that.

HUNTLEY: Were they critical of 00:20:00your participation of were they supportive? How did you feel in relationship to the rest of the family? Particularly your mother and your father?

TYSON: They were telling me that I shouldn't have gone, like I said, because of my father's job. But it wasn't anything that they kept badgering me about. Because they realized that I wasn't the only person that was in there, there were a lot of other people in there too. And if that's what I wanted to do, it was okay. But they were letting me know what could have happened. Well, nothing happened, but they were telling me what could have happened.

HUNTLEY: Right after school, your mother sent you to visit your sister in Cleveland, Ohio?

TYSON: Right.

HUNTLEY: Did you ever discuss what was happening in Birmingham?

TYSON: Oh, yes. I was the most talked about thing that ever happened.

HUNTLEY: How did they view you?

TYSON: They thought it was cool. Even though they probably had the same thing going on there, but I wasn't aware of it, you know. But they thought I was really a star because I had participated in it.

HUNTLEY: So, when you returned then from Cleveland and started your junior then, you did go back to the mass meetings?

TYSON: Right, I still went to the meetings.

HUNTLEY: Initially though your mother and your parents didn't know that you were attending the mass meetings?

TYSON: No.

HUNTLEY: Did they know it after you returned?

TYSON: Yes. But they had nothing to say about it.

HUNTLEY: Did they counsel you about going back to jail?

TYSON: Well, they didn't have to, because I didn't want to go back to jail. I think I would have gotten out of it if l knew I was going to jail again.

HUNTLEY: Well, right after you returned from Cleveland the bombing of Sixteenth Street Church took place, can you share with us your feelings about 00:22:00the bombing?

TYSON: I was devastated and frightened terribly. It was just a big shock. The area where I lived in, which was on Center Street and 6th Avenue South, I can remember that a house was bombed about two blocks from where I lived, so we got there after the shock from the bombing and my father told all of us to lie on the floor. "Everybody get on the floor."

HUNTLEY: That same day?

TYSON: That night.

HUNTLEY: That night of the bombing of the church?

TYSON: Right. I don't think that impact from the bomb was as large as the one that was in the church, but it was one. I don't remember whose house it was but I can remember it happening.

HUNTLEY: Do you remember if anyone was hurt?

TYSON: I don't think anyone was there.

HUNTLEY: And this was on the south side of 6th 00:23:00Avenue going toward Honeysuckle Hill?

TYSON: Right. Exactly.

HUNTLEY: What did your father do?

TYSON: He and the other fathers, went outside with guns. I just remember him telling us don't come outside. I don't know what they were looking for but everybody was upset, because they were upset from what had happened earlier that day with the church being bombed.

HUNTLEY: Did you know any of the girls that were killed?

TYSON: Yes. I knew two of them. It was just really, really sad. That was a very sad day.

HUNTLEY: Do you remember when you first heard it? Did you hear the bomb itself?

TYSON: No. I didn't hear it. But I just heard about it on TV.

HUNTLEY: Describe what that feeling was like.

TYSON: It was very frightening, you know. I couldn't believe that that was happening. Just 00:24:00really frightening and we were just devastated. We didn't know what to do. It was so many things that was going on, you know, it just, so many things going on at that particular time I just couldn't believe what was happening.

HUNTLEY: Were there any incidents happening just on the streets or as you were going to school that may have been associated with that? Were you afraid to ride the bus or to stand on the street?

TYSON: Yes. It was incidents happening but not around me. But things that you hear about and my mother would tell us to be careful. You know like, the Whites were so angry, if people would stand on the corner to 00:25:00catch the bus, they might be throwing rocks or anything or just shooting at you, whatever, you know, it was just really dangerous.

HUNTLEY: So, this is a period that was dangerous and you remembered it being dangerous because you had heard about what was happening in other parts of Birmingham?

TYSON: Right.

HUNTLEY: So you were always on guard?

TYSON: All the time. Right.

HUNTLEY: What benefits do you think that your community, your family, the city realized as a result of the Movement?

TYSON: Well, you know I think they have benefitted a lot, but at that particular time in '63 I never dealt with White people like them being mean to me in any kind of way so I didn't look at it that way. I didn't come from a prejudiced family. My mother never taught us that. And the things that they 00:26:00benefitted from I really wasn't involved in it, you know.

HUNTLEY: But you were involved in making some of the changes?

TYSON: Right. I was involved in that, but I never got any benefits from it, other than what is happening to me now. Maybe I wouldn't have had the kind of job that I have now.

HUNTLEY: After you finished high school you went to live in Cleveland Ohio?

TYSON: Right.

HUNTLEY: How did what you participated in '63 impact upon your life after high school and after you started to mature?

TYSON: The thought of me going through the changes in '63 never left me. Maybe I was a big-headed person, but even in Cleveland 00:27:00which it should have been better it probably was just as bad there as it is here. But I never really had any problems, but that never left my mind, because of the changes that I had gone through. I experienced something in '68 when my girlfriend and I was driving to Atlanta and that's what really made me realize what really was going on that we didn't know anything about which was nothing, but it was something to us. When we stopped at a bar in Georgia and we ordered a beer and they told us that we couldn't drink the beer there. We could buy it there, but we couldn't drink it. We had to go around to the back where the other Blacks were and we told them "No. We were going to drink it here, because we bought it here." And they said, "No. You are not going to drink it here." And 00:28:00the bartender called the police on us. And the police came and they escorted us out of town and told us if we didn't leave we were going to jail. And we went. "Oh, no, we weren't going to jail." So we got out of the town.

HUNTLEY: What town was that?

TYSON: It was Tallapoosa, Georgia.

HUNTLEY: Tallapoosa, Georgia. And this is in what year?

TYSON: In '68. Now that was my first time really going through some changes with White people.

HUNTLEY: So prior to then you had really not been confronted personally by anyone?

TYSON: Right.

HUNTLEY: Is there anything else you would like to add that we have not dealt with that may be related to your growing up in Birmingham or the Movement, or just in general terms of what Birmingham was like at the time that you were growing up.

TYSON: Well, like I said, I really didn't look at Birmingham as being a terrible place to live. Because I never dealt with the things that maybe my sisters and brothers were dealing with. When I came back there was a lot of improvement as far as jobs were concerned. I do remember riding the bus and they had the signs that said "Colored" and "White". I remember the water fountains that had the difference, the bathrooms that had the difference. But, it didn't bother me then like it would now.

HUNTLEY: Yes. It was just custom?

TYSON: It was just something that you did and that was it. But I'm glad it's over.

HUNTLEY: Well, you obviously had something to do with it changing so I think you should be proud of that.

TYSON: Right. I feel like I had a part in it. And even in doing so then, I remember someone saying that you might not benefit from this now, but eventually you will. And I have.

HUNTLEY: You have children now?

TYSON: I have two sons.

HUNTLEY: If there was a movement now, would you encourage them to get involved?

TYSON: No. Because I would be afraid. They are very hot headed and when I tell them about things that I have gone through, they can't believe it and I just don't know what may happen. If they could do it with a good attitude, 00:31:00yes I would, but I don't trust them. Because they go "Well, I am glad I was not living then." Because they just can't believe that these things were happening.

HUNTLEY: What if they would get involved anyway, how would you feel?

TYSON: I would just pray. I would pray and ask God to please help them. Because like I said, their attitudes are really messed up about the situation. But then they might have a level head about it, I don't know.

HUNTLEY: Well, I'm sure they would. I'm sure your mother felt the same about you when you did what you did.

TYSON: I know.

HUNTLEY: All right. Well, Ms. Tyson I really want to thank you for coming and sitting with us today and sharing this information, because obviously giving it from the perspective of one who was young at the time is a little different than from people who are older. So, again, thank you, we 00:32:00certainly appreciate your taking the time out of your busy schedule.

TYSON: You are welcome.