Ethel Weatherspoon Interviewed on July 21, 1998

HUNTLEY: This is an interview with Ms. Ethel Weatherspoon for the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute's Oral History Project. I'm Dr. Horace Huntley, we're presently at the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute. Today is July 21, 1998. Ms. Weatherspoon, I want to thank you for taking time out of your schedule and welcome to the Institute.

WEATHERSPOON: I'm glad to be here.

HUNTLEY: You were born in Birmingham, right?

WEATHERSPOON: Correct.

HUNTLEY: Where were your parents from?

WEATHERSPOON: My mother, she's from Phenix City, Russell County. My father, he was from Selma, Alabama.

HUNTLEY: Did they meet here in Birmingham?

WEATHERSPOON: Well, as far as I know, yes.

HUNTLEY: How many brothers and sisters do you have?

WEATHERSPOON: Well, I had seven brothers and sisters altogether but there's just two of us now living. Two girls.

HUNTLEY: There were seven of you. Were you the oldest? Were you the baby?

WEATHERSPOON: I was next to the oldest sister and had an older brother.

HUNTLEY: You were the third child, ok. Did your mother and father have a lot of schooling? How much schooling did they have?

WEATHERSPOON: My mother she mostly was a teacher in Phenix City.

HUNTLEY: She taught in Phenix City?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Did she go to college?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes, she did.

HUNTLEY: Where did she go? Do you know where she went?

WEATHERSPOON: I think it was somewhere in Columbus, Georgia. Her mother had bought some property in Georgia.

HUNTLEY: What kind of work did your mother and your father do?

WEATHERSPOON: Well, my mother did most like housework. My daddy, he just did different odd jobs.

HUNTLEY: You started first grade at Lincoln?

WEATHERSPOON: Lincoln School.

HUNTLEY: What was that like? Do you remember starting school?

WEATHERSPOON: Yeah, I do. It was real nice. We used to have a [inaudible] May Day. It was real good time.

HUNTLEY: Do you remember any of your teachers from Lincoln?

WEATHERSPOON: I remember Ms. Chairman, she was the music teacher. She died not too long ago.

HUNTLEY: What community did you grow up in?

WEATHERSPOON: Right here by the [inaudible]. Over there on 4th Avenue between 10th and 11th Street.

HUNTLEY: Oh, yeah.

WEATHERSPOON: Over where Hardee's is.

HUNTLEY: Where Hardee's is now?

WEATHERSPOON: Right, they tore the house down and built a highway there.

HUNTLEY: This was a big community then at that time?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: You were able then to walk to Lincoln?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: After Lincoln, where did you go?

WEATHERSPOON: Immaculate, that's on Southside on 14th Street.

HUNTLEY: So, why didn't you go to Parker?

WEATHERSPOON: Well, I just, I don't know. I just didn't like Parker in general. I just went to Immaculata.

HUNTLEY: Immaculata was a smaller school.

WEATHERSPOON: Yeah, it was smaller.

HUNTLEY: So, how did you get to Immaculata?

WEATHERSPOON: Ride the bus on 4th Avenue to go to town. Catch the bus, ride and get off on 14th Street South.

HUNTLEY: Oh, yeah. Ok. So, Immaculata, it was on the Southside.

WEATHERSPOON: Right.

HUNTLEY: You left the Northside to go to the Southside. Did many of your friends in your neighborhood did they go to Immaculata too?

WEATHERSPOON: No, they went to Parker.

HUNTLEY: So, were you the only one that went over to Immaculata?

WEATHERSPOON: As far as I know.

HUNTLEY: Tell me what was it like growing up in Birmingham during those times?

WEATHERSPOON: Well, it was real fun. We used to, the pastor used to take us on hay rides, you know. He used to take us on hay rides. It was real nice.

HUNTLEY: One of the issues that always come up is segregation in Birmingham. What was segregation like?

WEATHERSPOON: Well, it was pretty rough. We couldn't stop at the stand or anything.

HUNTLEY: You couldn't go in and get something to eat and sit down and eat it.

WEATHERSPOON: No.

HUNTLEY: What about the, riding the buses?

WEATHERSPOON: Well, it was rough. I used to catch the bus to go and see my grandmother. They would always tell you to go and sit in the back.

HUNTLEY: Was Phenix City the same way?

WEATHERSPOON: It was pretty, you know after Patterson got killed it started getting rough.

HUNTLEY: It was, they did a lot of gambling down there.

WEATHERSPOON: They called it Little Las Vegas.

HUNTLEY: Did you spend a lot of time down there?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes, on the weekends I would go and visit my grandmother and stay with her.

HUNTLEY: So, you then became familiar with Phenix City and Columbus, Georgia which was right across the river.

WEATHERSPOON: Right.

HUNTLEY: My aunt and uncle live in Columbus so I know a little about that area 00:07:00myself. So, did you finish high school?

WEATHERSPOON: No, I didn't.

HUNTLEY: What did you do after you stopped going to school for a while?

WEATHERSPOON: Well, after that. . .

HUNTLEY: Did you get married?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes and I was taking little girls' children and raise them. I never did have one by birth. So, I had all these children I raise.

HUNTLEY: How many children did you raise?

WEATHERSPOON: Seven of them.

HUNTLEY: You said you would get them from their mothers?

WEATHERSPOON: I would raise their mothers and then get the children they had.

HUNTLEY: Were the children that you raised were they relatives?

WEATHERSPOON: No. [inaudible] So, we went to family court and I got custody of them in family court.

HUNTLEY: So, that's when you got custody of all the children?

WEATHERSPOON: Seven of them and then I started adopting.

HUNTLEY: So, you've been rather busy these years.

WEATHERSPOON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: How many do you have at home now?

WEATHERSPOON: My daughter right there. She has two children of her own. I got her from her mother. The court took her from her mother. I went and got custody of her.

HUNTLEY: So, is she still living with you?

WEATHERSPOON: No, she lives up in Zion in an apartment.

HUNTLEY: Oh, I see. When the movement started to develop...were you active in those beginning days in the movement?

WEATHERSPOON: No, we would go. They were having meetings at certain churches and I used to go down there.

HUNTLEY: You attended those mass meetings?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: What was it like? What was a mass meeting like?

WEATHERSPOON: Well, it was mostly they were discussing about different [inaudible]. The different things they wanted you to do and what would help us. When we started demonstrating my son he was in it. They took him to city.

HUNTLEY: So, your son was arrested during the demonstrations?

WEATHERSPOON: Right.

HUNTLEY: You were arrested also?

WEATHERSPOON: Right.

HUNTLEY: What was the circumstances of your arrest? What happened?

WEATHERSPOON: I was going down there. They were having like a program. It was East of 7th and they were already demonstrating down there on 6th Avenue and 11th Street North by the [inaudible] Church. I was going in there to get here. 00:11:00So, while we were going the police were on a motorcycle and passed us. I happened to be standing on the corner and by the time he passed by me I turned around and he hit me in the stomach. I said, "You hit me in my stomach." So, he grabbed his and said, "You're going to be one of those smart niggers."So when he grabbed me I reached and grabbed him. So, we then went to scuffling. Then some cops came and put me in the patrol wagon. So, we got to scuffling there. They then put me in a police car and took me to the city jail. While I was there the police officer that me and him got into it, he was there.

HUNTLEY: The one that you first got into it with?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: What did he have to say to you then?

WEATHERSPOON: He was trying to tell somebody that I had broke his arm. I hadn't.

HUNTLEY: So, when they arrested you were you the only one in the car?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes. They tried to put me in a patrol car but they couldn't so they took me in a police car.

HUNTLEY: They tried to put you in a paddy wagon?

WEATHERSPOON: Paddy wagon.

HUNTLEY: But they couldn't get you in the paddy wagon?

WEATHERSPOON: No. That's why we were scuffling real hard.

HUNTLEY: Oh, ok, so they put you in a patrol car. So, how long were you in jail?

WEATHERSPOON: Well, I stayed in there for a little about two weeks. A friend of mine that belongs to the church, you might have heard about him. His name was Roosevelt Thomas. He was working with the movement. So, my husband was trying to get me out. So, he took him to the movement and gave him whatever he couldn't 00:13:00charge they paid him. They told me to come back to the movement. So, when I had my first trial Shuttlesworth he was helping me with it.

HUNTLEY: Rev. Shuttlesworth? WEATHERSPOON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: What was it like being in jail? What was that two weeks like?

WEATHERSPOON: Well, I thought me and the police were going to get into it again because they kept sending me to different parts. They would ask me different questions over at the jail.

HUNTLEY: What kind of questions were they asking you?

WEATHERSPOON: Did I think I what I was supposed to get for jumping on an officer. I said, well, he hit me first. So, those different kinds of things. They kept saying that I was being smart. So, the night of the bombing. . .

HUNTLEY: The motel?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes. I was in city jail.

HUNTLEY: You were in the city jail then?

WEATHERSPOON: Right. That's when they made my bond and I got out of jail.

HUNTLEY: Then you went back to the movement?

WEATHERSPOON: They brought me home. When I got home the police were on all the corners. [inaudible]. They didn't want anybody walking the street. So, I stayed in.

HUNTLEY: Where were you living then?

WEATHERSPOON: Right there on 23rd.

HUNTLEY: Where Hardee's is now?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: So, then while you were in jail did they attempt to beat you or anything of that nature?

WEATHERSPOON: No because [inaudible]. The people that worked in the jail. A couple of people that know me had gotten in touch with my husband. They told him that they were scared that they were going to do something to me. So, that's when I think they went to the movement and got Peter Hall for me.

HUNTLEY: So, Peter Hall was your lawyer?

WEATHERSPOON: Right.

HUNTLEY: Did you go to court?

WEATHERSPOON: Yeah, I went to court and they fined me 180 days and five counts.

HUNTLEY: Did you have to serve any of that time?

WEATHERSPOON: No because they must have made me a bond because I was at home one day and they called me to the phone from the ladies house next door. I went in and had to go to court. [inaudible] When I got up there they called to the court 00:16:00room the lawyer was talking to the District Attorney. They said I can get you off of the five counts which I was charged. I never had to serve one.

HUNTLEY: So, you then were free and didn't have to deal with that anymore.

WEATHERSPOON: No.

HUNTLEY: You said your son was arrested.

WEATHERSPOON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: This was during the demonstrations?

WEATHERSPOON: Right.

HUNTLEY: When you were arrested you were going by to pick up one of your children?

WEATHERSPOON: [inaudible]

HUNTLEY: That's when the policeman came by and hit you.

WEATHERSPOON: He was on a motorcycle. By me turning around that's when he hit me 00:17:00in the stomach.

HUNTLEY: He was still on the motorcycle?

WEATHERSPOON: Yeah, when me and him got to scuffling.

HUNTLEY: Did you drag him off the motorcycle?

WEATHERSPOON: I jerked him.

HUNTLEY: You jerked him off of there. Well, when your son went to jail. Were you in there at the same time?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Was he at the city?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes, at the city.

HUNTLEY: Did you know that he was in jail?

WEATHERSPOON: Yeah, I knew that he was in there.

HUNTLEY: Did any of your other children get involved?

WEATHERSPOON: My daughter was but I don't know if she went to jail. She was in 00:18:00that fight. I don't think she went to jail.

HUNTLEY: What kind of work were you doing at the time?

WEATHERSPOON: Nothing but just housewife.

HUNTLEY: You were keeping the kids. That's plenty of work, wasn't it?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes it was.

HUNTLEY: What kind of work did your husband do?

WEATHERSPOON: He drove a truck.

HUNTLEY: In the city or open road?

WEATHERSPOON: He was in town and then they moved out and drove across country.

HUNTLEY: All over the country?

WEATHERSPOON: Yeah.

HUNTLEY: So, he would be gone for days?

WEATHERSPOON: Yeah.

HUNTLEY: What do you think was the importance of what was happening during the 00:19:00demonstrations and all?

WEATHERSPOON: They were saying, you know, about that song we used to sing, "We Shall Overcome". I think Martin Luther King was supposed to be at the church after the program. There were so many demonstrations they just couldn't handle it.

HUNTLEY: Did you ever demonstrate?

WEATHERSPOON: No. That was just one time.

HUNTLEY: Did you approve of your son being involved?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Did he come and ask you or did he just get involved?

WEATHERSPOON: He told me he was going. I told him to stay out of town because they were spraying all that water. I told him to stay out of town because I didn't know what Bull Conner might have them to do. So, I told him to stay 00:20:00around close by home and the church.

HUNTLEY: Where was he in school?

WEATHERSPOON: He went to Lincoln.

HUNTLEY: Was he at Lincoln at that time?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: He was in elementary school?

WEATHERSPOON: Right.

HUNTLEY: Were there others in your community that were involved?

WEATHERSPOON: Roosevelt Thomas he was real involved in it. He sung for them all the time and went to different things with them.

HUNTLEY: Right.

WEATHERSPOON: Roosevelt was a good singer. He would come by my house and tell me he was going to a different church where they were having the meetings.

HUNTLEY: Right. How do you think the movement changed Birmingham?

WEATHERSPOON: Well, it a good job doing what they did. I look at so much that 00:21:00they did. I just feel [inaudible]. It's still not what it could be. I know about some of the colored officers you know they have kind of a bad attitude towards some of the colored people.

HUNTLEY: You mean today?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes. You know they get by [inaudible]. Instead of sitting down and talking with them. It's got me scared that one of them might get killed, you know.

HUNTLEY: Where do you live now?

WEATHERSPOON: Right there on 12th Street.

HUNTLEY: Are you a registered voter?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Do you remember taking the test for it? Do you remember when you first started?

WEATHERSPOON: When I first signed up to vote. You know [inaudible] on Southside?

HUNTLEY: Yes.

WEATHERSPOON: A lady was over there signing in and I signed up with one of them. They were over there.

HUNTLEY: I want to thank you for taking time out of your schedule to come and talk with us. What we're just trying to do is get pictures from people that were here and involved and seeing how we can develop this big picture of what Birmingham was like.

WEATHERSPOON: A big nice town but it was rough.

HUNTLEY: Do you remember when they bombed the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Where were you then?

WEATHERSPOON: I was at home.

HUNTLEY: Do you remember hearing the bomb?

WEATHERSPOON: There's a boy at my house now who was with his grandmother said he was in that church when it got bombed.

HUNTLEY: Is that right? He's at your house?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Is it one of the children that you adopted?

WEATHERSPOON: No, he's just a good friend of mine that visits my house all the time.

HUNTLEY: Those were some tough times.

WEATHERSPOON: Yes they were. One of those girls that got killed her brother 00:25:00comes to my house all the time. I think it was McNair. Her brother is at my house all the time.

HUNTLEY: Is that right?

WEATHERSPOON: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Is there a lot of discussion about the movement?

WEATHERSPOON: You always hear good words about the movement. I don't ever hear any bad words.

HUNTLEY: Changing the city for the better.

WEATHERSPOON: Yes, it is.

HUNTLEY: Ms. Weatherspoon I want to thank you for coming out. We really appreciate you taking this time out.

WEATHERSPOON: I'm glad I can.