Annie Marie Butler

HUNTLEY: This is an interview with Mrs. Annie Marie Butler for the Birmingham Civil Rights lnstitute's Oral History Project. I am Dr. Horace Huntley. We are at Miles College. Today is June 7, 1995.

Mrs. Butler, thank you for taking time out of your schedule to come and be with us today.

BUTLER: Thank you.

HUNTLEY: I just want to start by asking you a few general questions about your family. Where your parents from?

BUTLER: They were from south Alabama, Marengo County, called Dayton, Alabama.

HUNTLEY: Both of them were from Dayton?

BUTLER: Both of them.

HUNTLEY: Were you born in Dayton?

BUTLER: Yes, I was born in Dayton, Alabama.

HUNTLEY: When did you come to Birmingham?

BUTLER: I came to Birmingham when I was 11 years old.

HUNTLEY: How many brothers and sisters did you have?

BUTLER: I didn't have any brothers and sisters. I am an only child.

HUNTLEY: Did they spoil you?

BUTLER: Well, I was rotten.

HUNTLEY: Tell me just a little about your parents' education. How much education did they have?

BUTLER: My mother and father didn't have a high school education, but they did go to school. I don't remember how many years they went, but they did go to school. They knew basic reading and writing.

HUNTLEY: Most Black people didn't go to school formally during those times in 00:02:00ways that we are doing today. What about their occupations? What kind of work did your mother do?

BUTLER: When my mother was young they all did farming. And, then, when we moved to Birmingham my father worked in the mine and my mother did private homework.

HUNTLEY: Was he a coal miner or an ore miner?

BUTLER: Coal miner.

HUNTLEY: What community did you live in as a child growing up?

BUTLER: Avondale.

HUNTLEY: What mine did he work, do you know?

BUTLER: No. It was in Overton, Alabama. I don't know the name of it.

HUNTLEY: You then were brought up in Avondale. How would you describe your community?

BUTLER: The community was all Black. We didn't have any other races in the community. But it was a pretty nice community.

HUNTLEY: What kind of work did people do? Were most of them miners?

BUTLER: A lot of them worked for the Tennessee Company, I think.

HUNTLEY: Oh, TCI?

BUTLER: TCI. And there was another place, Stock Valve and Fitting because that's right out there in Avondale. That's where my children's daddy worked.

HUNTLEY: I see. Did your mother work outside at the home when you were growing up?

BUTLER: She worked in a private home for the White people.

HUNTLEY: In that general area?

BUTLER: Around in the Avondale, East Avondale and Woodlawn.

HUNTLEY: Tell me about your schooling. Where did you start elementary school?

BUTLER: It was called East Avondale, it was Avondale school but it was in East Avondale, not directly just right in the center Avondale, but it was called East Avondale and that's where I went and graduated to the ninth grade. Then I went to Ullman High School on the Southside. And at that time we were going to Ullman two years and then we transferred over to Parker two years.

HUNTLEY: You graduated from Parker then?

BUTLER: I went to Ullman two years, I went to Parker a year, then I dropped out of school and I went to night school. I finished in the night school.

HUNTLEY: How would you describe Ullman High School and Parker High School during that time?

BUTLER: Well, to me they were real nice schools because that's all we knew about at the time. So both of them were real nice schools.

HUNTLEY: Were there any particular teachers that you remember most in those schools, and if so, why would you remember them?

BUTLER: I remember Ms. Hayes. I don't remember her first name. I think she was an algebra teacher. I was real fond of algebra and I remember her. As far as the 00:06:00rest of them, I didn't remember those in Parker too much.

HUNTLEY: After high school, did you go on and get a job?

BUTLER: That's when I got the job at Robert James Company.

HUNTLEY: What did you do at Robert James Company?

BUTLER: At Robert James Company I did the errands. I used to go downtown and pick up the mail for them or go pick up things that they needed.

HUNTLEY: In 1956 when the NAACP was outlawed from operating In the State of Alabama, the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights was organized. Were you actively involved at that time?

BUTLER: I joined the Alabama Christian Movement at that time and we enjoyed going to the meetings. Our church was involved and that's how I got involved with it because our church was Involved. And each Monday night we would go to different churches and have this meeting. Rev. Shuttlesworth would have different speakers. And, the police and all would be there and he talked about Bull Conner, a lot. Because he was the mayor, I think he was the mayor.

HUNTLEY: He was Police Commissioner.

BUTLER: Commissioner of the city. It wasn't fun what we were doing but just to hear him talk about Bull Conner was just amazing.

HUNTLEY: What did he say about Bull Conner?

BUTLER: Well, he would just make remarks that he was against the Black people.

HUNTLEY: So Shuttlesworth would make fun but those were probably very serious kinds of things that he was doing.

BUTLER: Right. Because a lot of people was afraid for him to be talking like he did.

HUNTLEY: How did you look at Shuttlesworth? Was he different than most other pastors that you knew at the time?

BUTLER: Well, I liked him and enjoyed him. But it seemed to me like he had a lot of nerve to do things -- to say things and do things that he did. A lot of the 00:09:00pastors were afraid to come out in the open with what they had to say. And I believe he was real in what he was saying.

HUNTLEY: Were you involved with the NAACP prior to getting involved with the Alabama Christian Movement?

BUTLER: No, I wasn't.

HUNTLEY: Then, in '57, Shuttlesworth and Rev. Pfiffer attempted to enroll some children into Phillips High School, do you know anything about that?

BUTLER: Yes. My son was -- I had assigned for him to be enrolled.

HUNTLEY: So he was one of the students that were attempting to enroll in Phillips in 1957?

BUTLER: Yes, he was.

HUNTLEY: Then he was with Shuttlesworth the morning that he went up to Phillips 00:10:00and was attacked by the mobs?

BUTLER: Yes, he was in the car.

HUNTLEY: Were you there?

BUTLER: Well, like I say, I was driving for the Robert James Company and I had to go downtown. I knew the time, they didn't announce when they were going to go. I don't know how it was when they were going, but I did drive down that way.

HUNTLEY: Can you tell me what kind of feeling that a mother has knowing that her son was at Phillips High School? And of course, looking at this in the context of these times, that was a rather dangerous place to be at that particular time. Why did you decide to allow your son to be a part of it?

BUTLER: I agreed that he do it because I wanted the schools to be integrated 00:11:00because it just wasn't fair the way they would treat the Black kids and they couldn't go to all the schools. They didn't have the things at the Black schools that they had at the White schools.

HUNTLEY: Well, can you tell me what kind of preparation was made? What happened the night before the kids were going down to Phillips with Shuttlesworth? What did the Movement or Rev. Shuttlesworth or others, do to help prepare you all for that encounter?

BUTLER: They called us and told us what time. I don't remember whether they picked them up or whether we took them to a certain place but they told us what time to have them ready.

HUNTLEY: Were you all just selected or did you volunteer or how were you chosen?

BUTLER: It was volunteer.

HUNTLEY: You volunteered. So they left that morning and went up to Phillips High School. We know that Shuttlesworth was attacked and beaten, his wife was stabbed in the hip at the time. How did your son react? What did he say about this experience?

BUTLER: It seemed to me like he was a little frightened by what had happened down there from looking at the picture that was in the newspaper.

HUNTLEY: His picture was in the paper?

BUTLER: Yes.

HUNTLEY: What were the circumstances? Was he inside the car or what did the picture show?

BUTLER: It didn't show inside the car. It showed them, I imagine they made these pictures at the hospital.

HUNTLEY: So they were taken to the hospital. Were they attacked?

BUTLER: No. They weren't attacked.

HUNTLEY: But Shuttlesworth was taken to the hospital?

BUTLER: Right. And, then, they took the children to the hospital, too.

HUNTLEY: I see. Did they take them there to be checked over or for what reason?

BUTLER: I think they took them to be checked over but they didn't harm the kids at all.

HUNTLEY: In looking at how that develop, did that sort of solidify your participation in the Movement? Were you sold on being a participant in the Movement? Because I know now, as a result of your name appearing In the paper, you were terminated from your job, is that correct?

BUTLER:That's correct.

HUNTLEY: Can you tell me how that came about? What happened?

BUTLER: What happened. When they saw it in the paper they -- I am sure when they 00:14:00saw it in the paper because they told me right after, not the same day, but a day or two later, then they told me they didn't need me anymore. But they didn't say why.

HUNTLEY: They didn't give you any reason?

BUTLER:Well, I was kind of like a part-time employee anyway and so they didn't tell me why. But I knew what it was.

HUNTLEY: So you then, being terminated and you had a child to raise, what kind of strain did that put on you and your family?

BUTLER: Well, it wasn't really a strain because they were getting a check. Their father was dead and they gave them a check until they got 18 years old.

HUNTLEY: So it really didn't strain your family economically?

BUTLER:Not really.

HUNTLEY: Well what happened after that? Did you find another job?

BUTLER:After that, I found a job at a clothing store and I worked there awhile until my pastor, Rev. Herman Stone decided to open a kindergarten in our church so they asked me would I be director of the kindergarten. And so I stopped working where I was working and went on and started working at the church. It was a built thing because we didn't have but a few children so we weren't making much money. So, what we did, what they did, they said, "Whatever we make, we'll divide it with you." And so this is how it got started. So the kindergarten 00:16:00finally grew and grew after we moved to the southside and then we moved to Westend and it grew up until I was making a real good salary when I retired.

HUNTLEY: What church were you a member of?

BUTLER: New Hope Baptist Church.

HUNTLEY: Was New Hope one of the churches where the mass meetings would be held?

BUTLER: Yes. It was held at New Hope, New Pilgrim, Groveland and Rev. Phiffer's church, I don't remember the name of his church. All churches would not participate, but New Hope, New Pilgrim, I remember those.

HUNTLEY: So I am assuming you attended the mass meetings on a regular basis?

BUTLER: I attended each Monday night.

HUNTLEY: How would you describe the typical mass meeting? What was it like?

BUTLER: Well, it was kind of exciting because this was something new going on in Birmingham. It was really exciting to be there and not be afraid. We were not afraid. So they would have more policemen there every Monday night. And, you would think that they would be guarding -- I really don't know what they were there for.

HUNTLEY: But they were there in the meeting?

BUTLER: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Were they taking notes of what was going on in the meeting?

BUTLER: Well, I imagine they did, but I don't remember.

HUNTLEY: Did you participate in any of the demonstrations? I know there were bus demonstrations where they actually sat on the busses. Then they went and sat in at Loveman's, Newberry's and places like that.

BUTLER: No. I didn't participate in any of the sit-ins.

HUNTLEY: You were a member of the Membership Committee?

BUTLER: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Tell me about that. How did that work?

BUTLER: You would ask people to join the Christian Movement and I think it was by paying $1.00 to be a member. The churches would always be packed.

HUNTLEY: So that's where most of your memberships would come from, the various churches?

BUTLER: Yes.

HUNTLEY: Did others in your family participate?

BUTLER: No. My mother and aunt went to the meetings, but they didn't participate. They participated in marching from New Pilgrim down to the city jail, my mother did.

HUNTLEY: Did you participate in any of those?

BUTLER: No. I didn't participate in that.

HUNTLEY: You were usually working at the time? Or why was it you did not participate in the demonstrations?

BUTLER: Well, after I started the day care I had to be there all day. So I didn't go to any of the marches or demonstrations.

HUNTLEY: Let me back up just a bit. I know after your son, along with 00:20:00Shuttlesworth's children and Rev. Phiffer's children, they attempted to integrate Phillips High School, and you were not successful in that, what did you do?

BUTLER: After they went there, we knew when they went there they were not going to be enrolled anyway. So we kept them out until after then, then they went on to their regular schools.

HUNTLEY: Did you file a suit?

BUTLER: The Movement filed a suit but I didn't file any particular suit.

HUNTLEY: But your names appeared in the paper as being participants in that particular effort to desegregate the schools?

BUTLER: Right.

HUNTLEY: How many children did you have?

BUTLER: At the time I had two. But I have four now.

HUNTLEY: Was that your oldest son?

BUTLER: The oldest son, the one that participated, then I have another one that's two years younger than him.

HUNTLEY: Did he participate at all?

BUTLER: He didn't participate. I let Walter participate because he was ready to go in high school at the time.

HUNTLEY: So where did he eventually go to high school?

BUTLER: He went to Ullman High School. He graduated there.

HUNTLEY: You say you were a member of New Hope? That means that your church was actively involved in the Movement?

BUTLER: That's right. My church was active. My pastor was Rev. Hunter Stone.

HUNTLEY: He was very active?

BUTLER: In the Movement.

HUNTLEY: People basically supported his efforts?

BUTLER: Yes. Whatever the pastor did we supported.

HUNTLEY: If I were to ask you what was your most vivid memory of the Movement 00:22:00days, what would you say? What do you remember most about the activities of the Civil Rights Movement that you were involved?

BUTLER: What I remember mostly is about trying to integrate the schools.

HUNTLEY: Why does that stand out so much in your mind?

BUTLER: It stands out because my son was involved.

HUNTLEY: So that would make it stand out then. That brings it very close to home. What benefits did you, your family and community realize as a result of the Movement?

BUTLER: What benefits?

HUNTLEY: Yes.

BUTLER: I think some of the benefits are what we have now. You know they had the sit-ins at the lunch counters. We used to go downtown and at Newberrys we couldn't go up to the counter and order something. You had to stand at the end where the big jug was located. That was the only way you could be waited on. You had to go to the back doors and all that. And I think about the Christian Movement being organized and we worked in it that this brought about a change.

HUNTLEY: And of course, you would then suggest that the Movement, your assessment of the Movement would be one of success rather than failure?

BUTLER: Right. I think it was.

HUNTLEY: Because those things did change. If there is anything else that you would like to add that we have not dealt with during this conversation. I know that you were quite active. You had participated in all of the Monday night meetings. You knew many of the people. How would you sort of characterize that particular period of time in terms of the stagnation of Birmingham in race relations and then in terms of the change? How would you characterize it? Would it be an era that you would like to see renewed? Would it be something that you would not want to see happen again? How would you look at that period?

BUTLER: I wouldn't like to see it renewed or happen again because we went 00:25:00through a lot of changes. Back then after we signed for the children to go to Phillips High School, then there was some of the Movement people that was guards that had to watch our houses at night. They would stay out there all night long, watching to see that nothing happened to us and I wouldn't like to see that go back through that again.

HUNTLEY: Your family was threatened?

BUTLER: Yes. We had threatening telephone calls and stuff like that.

HUNTLEY: How did that affect you and your children at the time?

BUTLER: Well, really I was young and it didn't bother me too much, because I wasn't afraid. And the children, I don't think they were afraid.

HUNTLEY: At that time, you were living in what community?

BUTLER: Avondale.

HUNTLEY: In Avondale at the time as well. Is there anything else that you would like to add that we have not dealt with?

BUTLER: No. I can't think of nothing else.

HUNTLEY: You said you had an article of the --

BUTLER: Yes. The newspaper clip of -- it's a newspaper where it started on the front sheet of this where they took them to the hospital. It started on the front page and I have the second page. I don't know what happened to the front page. But anyway it has a picture of Rev. Shuttlesworth and my son, Avery and 00:27:00Nathaniel Lee and the Shuttlesworth girls in this picture that they made while they were at the hospital. I think they were sitting on a bench at the hospital.

HUNTLEY: Do you have any other items related to the Movement or the development of Birmingham that you would like to donate to the institute? If so, you can always just get in touch with either myself or the office.

BUTLER: I would like to donate the newspaper because it does have some information in it. But I really came out and forgot to bring it with me.

Because I made some copies of it.

HUNTLEY: Okay. We will be in touch with you about that. Thank you very much for 00:28:00taking your time.

BUTLER: Thank you.

HUNTLEY: We will definitely want to talk with you at some later date and make copies of these and let you look over them and we would just be in touch with you. Thank you.

BUTLER: Thank you very much.